[0:00] To realize that we can do it mother and daughter but she couldn’t do it with her her mother my, Halmeoni and herself and one day she said I wish I could share my stories with your grandmother, it’s not like we didn’t love each other I loved her she loved me but we didn’t know how to express and share painful stories vulnerably.

[0:34] Join us as we explore the hidden histories of Asian American, Native Hawaiian, and Pacific Islander people. Together, we hope to provide healing and strengthen cultural pride. This is Roots Reclaimed.

[0:49] Hi, I’m Dr. Joanne Rondilla, and today I am here on the beautiful campus of California State East Bay. And today I will be talking to Dr. Kyoung Mi Choi about her book, The Child Behind the Bushes, A Daughter’s Healing Journey of Intergenerational Trauma. Okay, Kyoung Mi, so thank you so much for joining me today because I’m so excited to talk about your book, The Child Behind the Bushes.

[1:22] And the subtitle is A Daughter’s Healing Journey of Intergenerational Trauma. So to begin, what is intergenerational trauma?

[1:33] The trauma that is not happened in my generation, but passed down from maybe one to three generations before of me. And that generation going through so many challenges in their lives, especially wars, poverty, discrimination, oppression, and in many cases, they haven’t really resolved and processed trauma. So it passed down to their offsprings without knowing they actually given that psychological difficulties and pain to their next generations. And we talked about it but through this book writing this book with my mom I was able to actually identify how that that affect me in my relationship psychologically. Every aspects in my life.

[2:33] And trying to describe how I processed that with my mom who actually discovered her intergeneration trauma from previous generations.

[2:45] Okay so you talked about thank you for that definition or at least that base baseline understanding of intergenerational trauma can you give us a little background about who you are where you’re from where you’re where your Halmeoni or grandmother or Umma‚ I hope i’m saying that right yeah where your Halmeoni or Umma are from just to establish for anyone who’s listening you know place, so if you could tell us a little bit about yourself.

[3:17] A little background about my grandmother my grandmother was born in this poor family and the family actually forced her to marry to this man rich man who just lost her first first wife so my my grandmother became the second wife.

[3:39] I think the the relationship went well pretty well until the Korean war happened. During the Korean war, my grandmother was forced to leave. So they left everything behind, the property and house, family members, everything she knew, left. But during the Korean War, my grandfather was killed.

[4:07] So my grandmother, Halmeoni, with the two kids, not knowing where to go, so they became internal refugees. And that made them really vulnerable. My grandmother was very, I guess, smart and also resilient. So my grandmother started a business, and that business, during that partnership with the neighbor businessman, actually took advantage of her. And she fought so hard legally and she won however that cost everything about her dignity and her I don’t know her her her respect for herself her life and they again they had to move again.

[4:52] And that was really hard for my mom. And so my mom actually learned not to fight. If something happened to you, as a woman, as not educated, even though she was so smart that she wanted to study, but the resources were so limited. So it’s one after another. And she was sharing everything in Jeju. She couldn’t stop.

[5:22] So for three days, I was receiving, but while I was listening to her story, I found another child behind the bushes. I realized that we are somewhat similar, she silenced that story her experiences for long time longer than I was.

[5:45] Yeah it’s interesting because you know the title of the book, “The Child Behind the Bushes” and then you go through this journey where both of you are essentially the children behind the bushes but something that I think that you left out was the way in which the both of you pulled each other out of the bushes right you know because it seems like you two have a very loving relationship. It seems that you two you know just have a very good healthy communication you know have good healthy communication with each other and I’m not trying to romanticize your your relationship because again in the book it the book shows this process of what it’s like to story tell right you know.

[6:32] I would imagine I’m imagining your mother always being quiet and then all of a sudden through a simple you know visit to a market and a simple question or you pointing out like, mom I don’t know you, and then her sort of you know the writer in her comes out right can you talk a little bit about your mother who she is as a person and especially who she was before this experience in Jeju and then you know.

[6:59] Such a important question you’re asking because uh that was that surprised me seeing her not her responsibilities her role as a mother but real human being in front of me sharing her story as a child her dreams right and difficulties and she was sharing so vulnerably and I was so honored to receive those stories from her, and that changed me.

[7:29] But that changed her so much that she became a person with joy, being able to express her happiness. At the same time, she was able to cry. And after cry, she reconnected herself and reconnected her joy again. And so she wasn’t afraid to go to that sadness and come out and bring her treasure, which is joy, reconnection and resiliency. So that was beautiful to see her.

[8:06] And you mentioned healthy relationship. It wasn’t healthy like that before, right? Before Jeju, I hadn’t seen her for three years until that moment. She stopped responding to any of my calls, my postcards, and she was really struggling with my relationship. My coming out, my marriage, that was really hard. She didn’t respond to our invitation to our wedding. So she missed all of that.

[8:42] And then after Jeju, she shared a little bit. And I realized that this is such an amazing gift for me. You opened up. You start sharing the story. I want to continue. And my mom said, no, no, no. This is, who wants to hear this story? Why do we need to write down so other people can find, right? And so she stayed in Korea. I came to California. I had to invite her again and again.

[9:14] And I think this is something meaningful for us and for people out there who might f ind it useful for their own journey. So finally she said let’s do it. I didn’t even know she was writer and that was her aspiration and dream I didn’t know I found out why we are writing this book.

[9:37] So every day after that she wrote and took a picture of her writing and and and emailed me or send me as a text and every morning I saw my Kakao Talk app which is very popular communication app I saw her handwriting beautifully and there’s all the specific and and ordered like timely.

[10:05] So she was really working hard every day to remember revisit reconnect those memories and it wasn’t really easy for her it wasn’t easy for me to understand how difficult the life and pain and all the losses she had to experience.

[10:28] Because I think so I think what’s important about your mother’s you know Umma’s story as well as Halmone’s story is their lives intersect in t he backdrop of war right and then in the aftermath of war, and I think that that informs a lot of the silence. And so by the time you have this experience with your mom and you both decide oh you know you’re going to write this book together there has to be a transition for you where you’re not the daughter you’re seeing, it’s almost like not that you ever stop being your mother’s daughter but your mother is transforming in front of you from mom to person and so what’s that yes what’s that like?

[11:11] And also as a child re-experiencing those traumatic events and sharing that as a as a child she wasn’t even you know rationalized those stories just so vulnerably share everything, all the emotions, so I had to maybe step up, right? And I took a role of person who’s holding a space for her. So I hold the space for her she was she felt safe and comfortable to share um and we it’s not permanent right she stayed as a child and she came out as adults and then also expressed as a as a mother.

[12:07] So we kind of time travel child and now and past and now and future and and that was a beautiful that was very organicand I was expected I expected that because also my professional background right I you know have been teaching counseling theories interventions. So I was able to bring that knowledge and and skills to to create that and it went myself very beautifully, and yeah she she was able to acknowledge that piece I can trust you.

[12:48] Okay because there there’s a point in the book where because you just said like you were the you were almost like the bearer of her stories right like you were the one that gave her that space and you know like it’s like the floodgates open right but then you reach this point where you ask her you know you know it’s like you’re receiving the stories from your mother but she’s not receiving the stories from you so can you talk a little bit about that.

[13:15] Yes yes so she was talking talking sometimes an hour two hours three hours in the beginning I was okay to to just receive receive receive.

[13:32] When I reached a certain point, I realized that it’s not sustainable, right? It has to be mutual understanding. I want her to know me, right? Not as a child, not as her daughter, as another individual actually going through my own personal growth and my journey. And she didn’t give me any opportunities to do that. She was talking and talking and talking.

[13:56] So many times I had to stop her. And she was so angry I was stopping her because is that what you want? You wanted to hear me you want to share my stories why you stop me? She didn’t know what we are doing and she didn’t know also I want I want to express to her right and after several conflicts and gradually she learned And she had to learn. She had to learn how to receive me and my stories. And later she said, she realized that we can do it, mother and daughter. But she couldn’t do it with her mother, my Halmone, and herself. And one day she said, I wish I could share my stories with your grandmother.

[14:54] It’s not like we didn’t love each other. I loved her. She loved me. But we didn’t know how to express and share painful stories vulnerably. That moment I realized that what we are doing, what we have been doing, it’s not maybe easy to others. People never, it’s so new to them, right?

[15:25] Yeah, I’m so happy that I was able to provide and I was able to be trained with the psychological knowledge and skills.

[15:39] So without running the risk of like spoiling things, you know, in the book, but I do want to point out, especially for people who are maybe interested in picking up the book. You know the book does go through three generations of women who have experienced sexual assault. And you know the way in which these three women you know Halmone, Umma and then you, the way the three of you had to grapple with this in so much silence and it wasn’t until you were able to have these conversations with your mom that you were able to just speak the thing right.

[16:18] And I think that oftentimes for women who or people who have been sexually assaulted the hardest thing to do is to speak the thing right right and then it’s even harder when you’re speaking the thing to a mother right or a daughter right like I think that that makes it so difficult and so vulnerable.

[16:40] Because I’m thinking about Chanel Miller, she has a book called “Know My Name”. And she was sexually assaulted by the Stanford swimmer, his name is Brock Turner. And, you know, I remember in that book where she is, she has to explain to her family that the news that, you know, made like, you know, national news that the victim is her. And, you know, she describes like trying to make sure that they were okay yeah when she was the victim right, because there’s just something really sensitive about sharing those things like with your family right

[17:24] And I think also too whether it’s like mother to daughter daughter to mother um because I know this in my own experience sometimes that transmission of stories. Like because I know for example because my mom was very similar in that she didn’t like to hear like my own stories or my own pain because she was afraid of the way she understood my own pain was my pain was her fault.

[17:52] And so that’s why that was never shared and like you know it she we never got to a point where we could just share for the sake of sharing because she always felt that anything bad that happened to me was a burden that she had to bear and that was never an expectation that I place on her. And I think a lot of this really has to do with intergenerational trauma and the ways in which we don’t really talk about that, right?

[18:19] Because even though, you know, both Halmone and Umma were still in Korea, you know, and you were the one that immigrated, what a lot of immigrant families experience—and, you know, and this was something that I learned in my own family—because I unfortunately like I don’t havemy parents anymore, I don’t have like the stories. The stories that I do have of my parents I had to extract it as a scholar right like I had to get a PhD to do this.

[18:50] For me it was um you know like learning the thing that I learned about my parents was for them because of U.S. Colonialism in the Philippines right It was such an honor for them to come to the United States. And I think that a lot of immigrants decide that because I was given this opportunity, you know the the price for that opportunity is, I have to let go of everything that happened in the past right.

[19:21] So that’s why um in my family we never got the stories of my brother my father or my mother you know we get them in like small bits and pieces you know um and and I’ve tried you know for a long time to really just sort of piece together who my parents are you know. Like they never let us in because for them it was that doesn’t matter because that’s who I was then and I came here for you so that we can have this life so our life starts in the United States.

[19:54] And what they did, because even down to language like we my brother sister and I we don’t know my parents language. And so when you grow up as like the child of immigrants you’re meant to feel like you don’t have a past or you don’t have a history because parents inadvertently let that history go.

[20:17] And I think that that’s where a lot of intergenerational trauma and a lot of tension between like the child of immigrants and immigrant parents come from right. I loved that you had this experience of like being able to see your your mother as like like a person right because I remember having that same experience with my mother because, and I can share this now, because unfortunately, both my parents had passed, but my parents met through letters.

[20:48] They had, and my father kept the letters from my mother. And so back in 2008, I was able to get these letters and I read them. And my mom, you know, she passed away not knowing I had these letters. And I remember reading these letters going, who is this woman? Like, I want to get to know her, right?

[21:09] She was so, she was so fiery. Right. And she really went toe to toe with my dad. Like I like there’s there’s a set of letters because they got engaged over the letters, which I did not know. And then my dad was very frugal and he said, you know, why don’t we get married like it at a like city hall or something?

[21:30] And I distinctly remember my mother writing, the poorest people in the Philippines get married in a church. And so if you won’t marry me in a church, we’re not going to get married at all. And I was like oh my god who was this woman? Right like but also to seeing how like she was so toe to toe with my with my father, like me and my brother and sister suddenly made sense to me.

[21:53] The other thing that was kept secret in our family was my mom was a medical doctor she’s she has a degree in dentistry, and you didn’t know. We had no idea wow you know and so um yeah because you know when for example when my mother died a few years ago you know part of the process is you go to like the funeral home and you know you have to answer all these questions about your parents, and like I knew my mother had a doctorate degree but for some reason it never occurred to me to tell the rest of the family.

[22:21] So we’re answering these questions and one of the questions is what is the highest degree, you know what’s the highest college degree that your mother, has and my brother immediately he goes bachelor’s degree, and like I paused and I said actually no she has a medical degree so it’s MD.

[22:36] And my brother was like, what what are you talking about and then I go mom mom’s a dentist right you know she has like she’s like a doctor dentist and my brother was like no she’s not and then I go let’s call Auntie Lily. So we called my aunt you know her oldest sister and my auntie confirmed it she goes yeah me and your mom have we’re doctors you know.

[23:00] And so yeah I mean something like that gets held back because again that was the price she felt you had to pay yeah right. So and I think that you know you know what I loved about this book is that what you got to do with your mom and what you still get to do with your mom is so rare. Right yeah and but it’s also a very difficult process because you both have to see each other as people, and you have to do that without feeling like you’re going to absorb whatever pain right.

[23:36] Yeah we have time to process together right and transform the pain into joy and connectionand resiliency, right that’s what we are um celebrating now. But your story is really powerful because it’s I heard from so many children of immigrants right and they share very similar stories and people read my book and they emailed me or reached out to me wanted to share their stories or ask me what what can I do, I read your book but I’m not sure if my parents are ready right.

[24:14] So it is rare I think and that’s the reason I didn’t have a map to follow when I was writing this book, right? Or unpack those stories. And my hope was writing as it is happening right now, right?

[24:37] So that people can read what’s happening right now at the moment between these two persons, in love, but also carrying so much psychological burdens and pain in our lives.

[24:53] And I’m looking at my book, and I’m so thankful because I cannot remember all the details right now. But when I go back to read different chapters, I realize, oh, yeah, I’m so glad that we were able to write it down at the moment. And it was real and we try our best to be honest.

[25:14] And my hope is that someone like you, what you mentioned, right? Or someone like you mentioned those, my students like that, many children of immigrants, knowing that there is a case, right? And also maybe feeling a little more empowered or knowing that it is, it is maybe there’s a hope. There’s hope. That’s how I see it. Yeah.

[25:46] So in the book you talk, you reference these ideas of spirituality, right? I think in the very beginning you use that term spiritual. And then throughout the book, in these little nuggets, you talk about faith, right? Because, and you know, this to me as an Asian American studies scholar, this makes sense that, you know, Koreans are very, there’s a lot of Koreans who are Christian. And I’m curious to know, or can you talk a little bit about your relationship with faith and how that helped to guide your healing journey or this journey to be able to communicate with your mom? Yes.

[26:28] As a child, as I mentioned, I didn’t know how to access and connect with love, right? For me, one way was actually through a religion. As a child, I didn’t know how to distinguish between religion and spirituality. So church and what I learned from the Bible was so precious to me back then right so and then you know as you can see in my story I was so drawn to those religious you know gatherings and practices and that gave gave me comfort gave me also a sense of identity.

[27:13] At the same time I experienced real, I don’t know, breakdown, or betrayal or deception. And that was really hard to hold both. One is such a sense of identity and belonging. At the same time, there’s a deception which is not love and disconnection from the truth.

[27:45] So with my mom… In the book, we try to unpack not so much about religion per se, but our connection to someone, something bigger than us. We call God, right?

[28:05] God, what’s God? How we connect with God is through different ways. And we, I think we learn to accept different ideas about God. And also we had process what love is. And also I was able to share some painful stories about this you know the Christian group leader and my own experience with my father who’s also hold this religious position in Christianity.

[28:36] I tried not to be confused with those two terms which is a religion and the other one is spirituality and spirituality is still very powerful important anchor in my life.

[28:52] Yeah because your story so it’s very different from me because like I grew up like a lot of Filipinos Catholic and you know when i was about 19 I decided I you know I sort of made peace with the fact that as a Filipino I will always be a cultural Catholic because Catholicism informs so much of like how we gather as families and things like that.

[29:14] But I made the decision to not go to church anymore because I saw the connection between the Catholic church and, you know, the colonization of the Philippines. And, you know, I felt like I just sort of had to let go of that.

[29:30] And for me, you know, especially like after my mother died, my sister and I , had very different relationships with how we would cope with like our grief, right? So my brother is always at church, you know, he’s very much like a church-goer.

[29:48] My sister returned to Catholicism, because for her, that was her way to revisit our mother, right? Because my mother was very religious, Right. And it was a way for her to reconnect with our mom. Right. And I knew, you know, and like, I respect that decision. And for me, I ended up becoming a Buddhist, right. You know, practicing Nichiren Buddhism, because that was a way for me to reconnect to my mom. You know, and I think that, you know, I think we forget the role of whether it be.

[30:24] Or like, you know, spirituality. And to me, this isn’t about selling some type, you know, a particular type of, you know, faith. But I do think that in these mental health spaces, right, we forget the role of faith in, you know, our healing journeys or how we manage trauma.

[30:47] Because it could be through formalized religion, but it could also be through how we understand and how we, you know, define what spirituality is.

[31:00] Because, yeah, I know, especially because you and I are faculty people and in our spaces, it’s hard to talk about religion. You know, sometimes it can actually actually be looked down upon. But what I appreciated was that you offered this space of exploration without sort of like selling any type of religion. You know, but offering that space of, you know, faith, whatever your faith is, can be this anchor for that healing journey.

[31:33] And my story actually describes. My struggles with the religious group or and also my desire to go back to practice certain religious practices yet one place I I’m having really hard to go back to is Korean church yeah not only because my trauma or my understanding of God and love but also my relationship loving relationship is often many places rejected right so one thing I want to remember is healing journey, experiencing God is way bigger than what I can understand, right?

[32:28] And my mom, this is so powerful. My mom said, I see you and your wife, Crystal, in love. There’s so much love between you. If God doesn’t allow and accept your love, that’s not my God.

[32:47] And when she said that, who actually rejected our invitation to our wedding and denied our relationship after meeting us, seeing us and traveling with us and process her trauma and our trauma together. Now she sees love and that’s her definition of God and that God is bigger than Korean churches and what religion preaches. So that was beautiful. And that gave me such a, I don’t know, the ocean of love I’m swimming in. That’s how I feel.

[33:23] Thank you for sharing that. Because the thing that, you know, I think the book sort of starts and ends with is your relationship with your wife. Because I do know in a lot of AANHPI communities. you know, because of various things, whether it be history, certain cultural norms and standards, or even different religions or faith, you know, the LGBTQ plus community is not often welcome.

[33:52] Right. And you talk about that, especially with your mom, right? You know, she did not come to the wedding, and that breaks my heart because when my husband and I got married t he thing that I remember about our wedding celebration was I think I was just so overwhelmed by the amount of love that was in the room because everyone that loves you is there. And they’re there for the sole purpose of celebrating your love. And that’s when you feel like how powerful love could be.

[34:24] And so and I remember my mom you know um when we got married uh you know my mom was alive and and um you know his his father was alive so you know like we each of us had one parent and I was just so happy to you know like for our parents to witness that.

[34:44] In Filipino weddings we have this tradition of you know you have the the you know like the dance with the parents, and you know so we had to sort of crisscross like he danced with my mother, and I danced with his father.

[35:00] And um you know like his father you know I remember him crying and he said you know when um because like when I met his mother uh she had cancer and like she died a couple years later and um you know his father said you know when um Jose’s mother met me you know he said, you know when she met you she knew you were the one, because she had never seen Jose so happy. And so it was just that amplification of love.

[35:29] And so yeah when I read your story and I see that your mom didn’t, wasn’t present for that right like I’m like oh god like I would imagine like the heartbreak and especially for you to to feel that right.

[35:43] I’m never one to ask for advice but I’m curious to know um I guess what words, do you have for people who are struggling with parents who can’t you know who can’t accept their relationship and also like what words do you have for like the parents to you know how can both parents and and children sort of like open that have that invitation in.

[36:07] That’s a I don’t know I don’t know how to answer there’s no one way to say and my way is not universal to other people. But one thing my my wife Crystal said that they need to see me. They needed to meet me in person then they can humanize me and our relationship. It’s not labeled as same-sex marriage or being lesbian it’s it’s more than that it’s love.

[36:41] They have to see us being in this loving relationship how we interact how we you know cultivate our love in this in this house and this family, it is family right they need to experience in that. And that was true actually my mom met Crystal instantly she was hugging her, you know she was open to get to know her, and Crystal did the same thing. They were just like already they looked like they have known each other for for a long time, right?

[37:21] So one thing is, one thing I don’t recommend is try to, deny or avoid even having that, you know, the contact, right? The encounter to see each other, see each other’s eyes and have a conversation about love and relationship. Without that, do not judge. You don’t know what they are having together, right?

[37:48] Many times it was my mom who loves searching everything online. And then she learned all the information from the websites and talking about Dutch culture, talking about LGBTQ, and she had no idea that that those information, that information doesn’t really capture what we have in spirit or emotionally. And our space, she walked in our house, she felt love in this place, that place.

[38:20] So one thing is I know it’s painful maybe it’s against your cultural norms your beliefs I think it’s important to see person and then have that open vulnerable conversation about who you are, what relationship you have, what dreams you have, without knowing the person the judgment never works.

[38:47] So and the other thing is those children of immigrants and their parents are not accepting them that’s really hard. One of the reasons I left South Korea my job my friends and my family was actually coming out and desire to explore myself.

[39:07] And explore love right, socame to the United States was um actually it’s a decision intentional decision and coming out was in um very mindful decision for me and it was a journey to fully accept myself and also fully accept and being proud of myself. It took long time at the At the same time, on that journey, I met many beautiful people, supported me, loved me, and provided resources.

[39:46] I want those people who are listening to this episode or watching our conversation, I want you to know that there are people out there willing to support you, listen to your stories. Maybe your parents are not ready, but there are people who are willing to be there for you.

[40:03] Yeah, I think the last point I wanted to make about your book is that you’re very clear about how the, you know, even though the book has ended, the journey hasn’t ended. Right you’re still getting to you know you and your mom are still getting to know each other. A nd I think that oftentimes when we think about um you know how we interact with our parents or you know how we interact with our loved ones it’s almost like there’s this end game but the thing is there never is an end game.

[40:33] Like for me both my parents have have passed on but like I feel like I’m always trying to get to know them. The mode is a little bit different because they’re gone but you know um you know like just because they’re gone doesn’t mean that I don’t get to engage in like a healing journey myself.

[40:54] And you know the the other takeaway from your book is really the centrality of the storytelling right like we forget how brave it is to share ourselves. We forget how brave it is to share like to be in courageous conversations, in honest conversations.

[41:14] So one thing when people reach out to me and and shared I read your book my reaction is like oh my god no it’s not like that okay. What would you like? Do you like to share? Or what was your reaction? I still have that I don’t know sensation of I don’t know what to expect what other people I know experience my book and my journey.

[41:43] Part of me, also, I feel very vulnerable, right? It’s a very personal story. And not only mine, but my mother, my grandmother, parents. And so part of me, I want to talk about it, but I don’t want to talk about it.

[42:04] But one thing I realized that at the end of my book, And this journey was way bigger than my own even intentionality, my own knowledge, my skills. So I had to walk with, you know, the faith and spirituality and bigger love. And when I was writing and I was going through this process, I didn’t know when to end, honestly. I didn’t know when to end.

[42:35] But I realized that maybe there’s no clear end, as you mentioned. It’s an ongoing process. I’m going to learn something about myself. I’m going to learn something about my grandma, my parents, my mom especially. And she’s still sharing more stories, right, on other layers.

[42:52] One thing I’m so grateful is that I see those children behind the bushes. Like metaphorically, right? They are everywhere. They are in my classroom. They are at my school.

[43:10] They are, especially now, this book is translated in Vietnamese. I was in Vietnam meeting these young people who are affected by the Vietnam War and directly from their, or indirectly from their parents, right? And what I see is, I see my mom’s stories. I hear my mom’s stories again and again, and they’re still living in the condition, right, in silence, and not receiving proper support.

[43:42] So my heart goes to those people, and at least what I can do is I can share my book, my story. You are not alone, right? And I’m here. My story is here to maybe invite you to come out. You don’t need to be behind the bushes and feeling lonely.

[44:00] I felt so lonely for a long, long time, and I didn’t know I was lonely. I felt so restless. I felt so rootlessness, and I didn’t know where that sensation and feeling came from, right? And then I realized that it’s my story, my family.

[44:20] The stories actually anchor me. That’s my roots, right? After receiving a gift of stories I realized that I felt grounded. I exist. There was new concept, new sensation, I exist because of the story telling me, where I came from.

[44:43] Well it’s not just that you exist it’s that you exist and that you matter and there’s something so powerful yeah to come to that. And I’m sure your mother went through the same thing. Yes, that’s all I have. Thank you.

[44:57] Thank you so much. Thank you. That’s it.

[45:06] Roots Reclaimed is a production of the AANHPI ‘Ohana Center of Excellence, a culturally centered behavioral health resource center aimed to empower Asian American, Native Hawaiian, and Pacific Islander communities. To get access to resources, referrals, trainings, workshops, and so much more, visit us at aanhpi-ohana.org.

[45:30] Mahalo.