Episode 5: Healing Intergenerational Trauma: A Conversation with Kyoung Mi Choi on Rewriting Her Family’s Story

Roots Reclaimed - Episode 5

In today’s episode, Dr. Joanne Rondilla interviews Kyoung Mi Choi, author of the deeply personal memoir “The Child Behind the Bushes: A Daughter’s Healing Journey of Intergenerational Trauma.” The author shares why she wrote the book with her Korean mother and how the writing process helped them heal from trauma. Together, Joanne and Kyoung Mi reflect the impact of their respective cultures on their relationships with their mothers.

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The Child Behind the Bushes book

Get the book, "The Child Behind the Bushes: A Daughter's Healing Journey of Intergenerational Trauma"

This deeply personal memoir is a story of healing, written like a riveting thriller with plot twists and cliffhangers, You are invited to vicariously walk along on the healing journey with author Kyoung Mi Choi and her Umma (the Korean word for mom). From South Korea, married to a woman from the Netherlands while living and working in the United States, the story spans three generations and three continents. As a professor of counselor education, Choi grounds the healing process in her professional experience. This book captures the beauty and challenges of intergenerational and intercultural relationships.

Find the book on Amazon

[0:00] To realize that we can do it mother and daughter but she couldn’t do it with her her mother my, Halmeoni and herself and one day she said I wish I could share my stories with your grandmother, it’s not like we didn’t love each other I loved her she loved me but we didn’t know how to express and share painful stories vulnerably.

[0:34] Join us as we explore the hidden histories of Asian American, Native Hawaiian, and Pacific Islander people. Together, we hope to provide healing and strengthen cultural pride. This is Roots Reclaimed.

[0:49] Hi, I’m Dr. Joanne Rondilla, and today I am here on the beautiful campus of California State East Bay. And today I will be talking to Dr. Kyoung Mi Choi about her book, The Child Behind the Bushes, A Daughter’s Healing Journey of Intergenerational Trauma. Okay, Kyoung Mi, so thank you so much for joining me today because I’m so excited to talk about your book, The Child Behind the Bushes.

[1:22] And the subtitle is A Daughter’s Healing Journey of Intergenerational Trauma. So to begin, what is intergenerational trauma?

[1:33] The trauma that is not happened in my generation, but passed down from maybe one to three generations before of me. And that generation going through so many challenges in their lives, especially wars, poverty, discrimination, oppression, and in many cases, they haven’t really resolved and processed trauma. So it passed down to their offsprings without knowing they actually given that psychological difficulties and pain to their next generations. And we talked about it but through this book writing this book with my mom I was able to actually identify how that that affect me in my relationship psychologically. Every aspects in my life.

[2:33] And trying to describe how I processed that with my mom who actually discovered her intergeneration trauma from previous generations.

[2:45] Okay so you talked about thank you for that definition or at least that base baseline understanding of intergenerational trauma can you give us a little background about who you are where you’re from where you’re where your Halmeoni or grandmother or Umma‚ I hope i’m saying that right yeah where your Halmeoni or Umma are from just to establish for anyone who’s listening you know place, so if you could tell us a little bit about yourself.

[3:17] A little background about my grandmother my grandmother was born in this poor family and the family actually forced her to marry to this man rich man who just lost her first first wife so my my grandmother became the second wife.

[3:39] I think the the relationship went well pretty well until the Korean war happened. During the Korean war, my grandmother was forced to leave. So they left everything behind, the property and house, family members, everything she knew, left. But during the Korean War, my grandfather was killed.

[4:07] So my grandmother, Halmeoni, with the two kids, not knowing where to go, so they became internal refugees. And that made them really vulnerable. My grandmother was very, I guess, smart and also resilient. So my grandmother started a business, and that business, during that partnership with the neighbor businessman, actually took advantage of her. And she fought so hard legally and she won however that cost everything about her dignity and her I don’t know her her her respect for herself her life and they again they had to move again.

[4:52] And that was really hard for my mom. And so my mom actually learned not to fight. If something happened to you, as a woman, as not educated, even though she was so smart that she wanted to study, but the resources were so limited. So it’s one after another. And she was sharing everything in Jeju. She couldn’t stop.

[5:22] So for three days, I was receiving, but while I was listening to her story, I found another child behind the bushes. I realized that we are somewhat similar, she silenced that story her experiences for long time longer than I was.

[5:45] Yeah it’s interesting because you know the title of the book, “The Child Behind the Bushes” and then you go through this journey where both of you are essentially the children behind the bushes but something that I think that you left out was the way in which the both of you pulled each other out of the bushes right you know because it seems like you two have a very loving relationship. It seems that you two you know just have a very good healthy communication you know have good healthy communication with each other and I’m not trying to romanticize your your relationship because again in the book it the book shows this process of what it’s like to story tell right you know.

[6:32] I would imagine I’m imagining your mother always being quiet and then all of a sudden through a simple you know visit to a market and a simple question or you pointing out like, mom I don’t know you, and then her sort of you know the writer in her comes out right can you talk a little bit about your mother who she is as a person and especially who she was before this experience in Jeju and then you know.

[6:59] Such a important question you’re asking because uh that was that surprised me seeing her not her responsibilities her role as a mother but real human being in front of me sharing her story as a child her dreams right and difficulties and she was sharing so vulnerably and I was so honored to receive those stories from her, and that changed me.

[7:29] But that changed her so much that she became a person with joy, being able to express her happiness. At the same time, she was able to cry. And after cry, she reconnected herself and reconnected her joy again. And so she wasn’t afraid to go to that sadness and come out and bring her treasure, which is joy, reconnection and resiliency. So that was beautiful to see her.

[8:06] And you mentioned healthy relationship. It wasn’t healthy like that before, right? Before Jeju, I hadn’t seen her for three years until that moment. She stopped responding to any of my calls, my postcards, and she was really struggling with my relationship. My coming out, my marriage, that was really hard. She didn’t respond to our invitation to our wedding. So she missed all of that.

[8:42] And then after Jeju, she shared a little bit. And I realized that this is such an amazing gift for me. You opened up. You start sharing the story. I want to continue. And my mom said, no, no, no. This is, who wants to hear this story? Why do we need to write down so other people can find, right? And so she stayed in Korea. I came to California. I had to invite her again and again.

[9:14] And I think this is something meaningful for us and for people out there who might f ind it useful for their own journey. So finally she said let’s do it. I didn’t even know she was writer and that was her aspiration and dream I didn’t know I found out why we are writing this book.

[9:37] So every day after that she wrote and took a picture of her writing and and and emailed me or send me as a text and every morning I saw my Kakao Talk app which is very popular communication app I saw her handwriting beautifully and there’s all the specific and and ordered like timely.

[10:05] So she was really working hard every day to remember revisit reconnect those memories and it wasn’t really easy for her it wasn’t easy for me to understand how difficult the life and pain and all the losses she had to experience.

[10:28] Because I think so I think what’s important about your mother’s you know Umma’s story as well as Halmone’s story is their lives intersect in t he backdrop of war right and then in the aftermath of war, and I think that that informs a lot of the silence. And so by the time you have this experience with your mom and you both decide oh you know you’re going to write this book together there has to be a transition for you where you’re not the daughter you’re seeing, it’s almost like not that you ever stop being your mother’s daughter but your mother is transforming in front of you from mom to person and so what’s that yes what’s that like?

[11:11] And also as a child re-experiencing those traumatic events and sharing that as a as a child she wasn’t even you know rationalized those stories just so vulnerably share everything, all the emotions, so I had to maybe step up, right? And I took a role of person who’s holding a space for her. So I hold the space for her she was she felt safe and comfortable to share um and we it’s not permanent right she stayed as a child and she came out as adults and then also expressed as a as a mother.

[12:07] So we kind of time travel child and now and past and now and future and and that was a beautiful that was very organicand I was expected I expected that because also my professional background right I you know have been teaching counseling theories interventions. So I was able to bring that knowledge and and skills to to create that and it went myself very beautifully, and yeah she she was able to acknowledge that piece I can trust you.

[12:48] Okay because there there’s a point in the book where because you just said like you were the you were almost like the bearer of her stories right like you were the one that gave her that space and you know like it’s like the floodgates open right but then you reach this point where you ask her you know you know it’s like you’re receiving the stories from your mother but she’s not receiving the stories from you so can you talk a little bit about that.

[13:15] Yes yes so she was talking talking sometimes an hour two hours three hours in the beginning I was okay to to just receive receive receive.

[13:32] When I reached a certain point, I realized that it’s not sustainable, right? It has to be mutual understanding. I want her to know me, right? Not as a child, not as her daughter, as another individual actually going through my own personal growth and my journey. And she didn’t give me any opportunities to do that. She was talking and talking and talking.

[13:56] So many times I had to stop her. And she was so angry I was stopping her because is that what you want? You wanted to hear me you want to share my stories why you stop me? She didn’t know what we are doing and she didn’t know also I want I want to express to her right and after several conflicts and gradually she learned And she had to learn. She had to learn how to receive me and my stories. And later she said, she realized that we can do it, mother and daughter. But she couldn’t do it with her mother, my Halmone, and herself. And one day she said, I wish I could share my stories with your grandmother.

[14:54] It’s not like we didn’t love each other. I loved her. She loved me. But we didn’t know how to express and share painful stories vulnerably. That moment I realized that what we are doing, what we have been doing, it’s not maybe easy to others. People never, it’s so new to them, right?

[15:25] Yeah, I’m so happy that I was able to provide and I was able to be trained with the psychological knowledge and skills.

[15:39] So without running the risk of like spoiling things, you know, in the book, but I do want to point out, especially for people who are maybe interested in picking up the book. You know the book does go through three generations of women who have experienced sexual assault. And you know the way in which these three women you know Halmone, Umma and then you, the way the three of you had to grapple with this in so much silence and it wasn’t until you were able to have these conversations with your mom that you were able to just speak the thing right.

[16:18] And I think that oftentimes for women who or people who have been sexually assaulted the hardest thing to do is to speak the thing right right and then it’s even harder when you’re speaking the thing to a mother right or a daughter right like I think that that makes it so difficult and so vulnerable.

[16:40] Because I’m thinking about Chanel Miller, she has a book called “Know My Name”. And she was sexually assaulted by the Stanford swimmer, his name is Brock Turner. And, you know, I remember in that book where she is, she has to explain to her family that the news that, you know, made like, you know, national news that the victim is her. And, you know, she describes like trying to make sure that they were okay yeah when she was the victim right, because there’s just something really sensitive about sharing those things like with your family right

[17:24] And I think also too whether it’s like mother to daughter daughter to mother um because I know this in my own experience sometimes that transmission of stories. Like because I know for example because my mom was very similar in that she didn’t like to hear like my own stories or my own pain because she was afraid of the way she understood my own pain was my pain was her fault.

[17:52] And so that’s why that was never shared and like you know it she we never got to a point where we could just share for the sake of sharing because she always felt that anything bad that happened to me was a burden that she had to bear and that was never an expectation that I place on her. And I think a lot of this really has to do with intergenerational trauma and the ways in which we don’t really talk about that, right?

[18:19] Because even though, you know, both Halmone and Umma were still in Korea, you know, and you were the one that immigrated, what a lot of immigrant families experience—and, you know, and this was something that I learned in my own family—because I unfortunately like I don’t havemy parents anymore, I don’t have like the stories. The stories that I do have of my parents I had to extract it as a scholar right like I had to get a PhD to do this.

[18:50] For me it was um you know like learning the thing that I learned about my parents was for them because of U.S. Colonialism in the Philippines right It was such an honor for them to come to the United States. And I think that a lot of immigrants decide that because I was given this opportunity, you know the the price for that opportunity is, I have to let go of everything that happened in the past right.

[19:21] So that’s why um in my family we never got the stories of my brother my father or my mother you know we get them in like small bits and pieces you know um and and I’ve tried you know for a long time to really just sort of piece together who my parents are you know. Like they never let us in because for them it was that doesn’t matter because that’s who I was then and I came here for you so that we can have this life so our life starts in the United States.

[19:54] And what they did, because even down to language like we my brother sister and I we don’t know my parents language. And so when you grow up as like the child of immigrants you’re meant to feel like you don’t have a past or you don’t have a history because parents inadvertently let that history go.

[20:17] And I think that that’s where a lot of intergenerational trauma and a lot of tension between like the child of immigrants and immigrant parents come from right. I loved that you had this experience of like being able to see your your mother as like like a person right because I remember having that same experience with my mother because, and I can share this now, because unfortunately, both my parents had passed, but my parents met through letters.

[20:48] They had, and my father kept the letters from my mother. And so back in 2008, I was able to get these letters and I read them. And my mom, you know, she passed away not knowing I had these letters. And I remember reading these letters going, who is this woman? Like, I want to get to know her, right?

[21:09] She was so, she was so fiery. Right. And she really went toe to toe with my dad. Like I like there’s there’s a set of letters because they got engaged over the letters, which I did not know. And then my dad was very frugal and he said, you know, why don’t we get married like it at a like city hall or something?

[21:30] And I distinctly remember my mother writing, the poorest people in the Philippines get married in a church. And so if you won’t marry me in a church, we’re not going to get married at all. And I was like oh my god who was this woman? Right like but also to seeing how like she was so toe to toe with my with my father, like me and my brother and sister suddenly made sense to me.

[21:53] The other thing that was kept secret in our family was my mom was a medical doctor she’s she has a degree in dentistry, and you didn’t know. We had no idea wow you know and so um yeah because you know when for example when my mother died a few years ago you know part of the process is you go to like the funeral home and you know you have to answer all these questions about your parents, and like I knew my mother had a doctorate degree but for some reason it never occurred to me to tell the rest of the family.

[22:21] So we’re answering these questions and one of the questions is what is the highest degree, you know what’s the highest college degree that your mother, has and my brother immediately he goes bachelor’s degree, and like I paused and I said actually no she has a medical degree so it’s MD.

[22:36] And my brother was like, what what are you talking about and then I go mom mom’s a dentist right you know she has like she’s like a doctor dentist and my brother was like no she’s not and then I go let’s call Auntie Lily. So we called my aunt you know her oldest sister and my auntie confirmed it she goes yeah me and your mom have we’re doctors you know.

[23:00] And so yeah I mean something like that gets held back because again that was the price she felt you had to pay yeah right. So and I think that you know you know what I loved about this book is that what you got to do with your mom and what you still get to do with your mom is so rare. Right yeah and but it’s also a very difficult process because you both have to see each other as people, and you have to do that without feeling like you’re going to absorb whatever pain right.

[23:36] Yeah we have time to process together right and transform the pain into joy and connectionand resiliency, right that’s what we are um celebrating now. But your story is really powerful because it’s I heard from so many children of immigrants right and they share very similar stories and people read my book and they emailed me or reached out to me wanted to share their stories or ask me what what can I do, I read your book but I’m not sure if my parents are ready right.

[24:14] So it is rare I think and that’s the reason I didn’t have a map to follow when I was writing this book, right? Or unpack those stories. And my hope was writing as it is happening right now, right?

[24:37] So that people can read what’s happening right now at the moment between these two persons, in love, but also carrying so much psychological burdens and pain in our lives.

[24:53] And I’m looking at my book, and I’m so thankful because I cannot remember all the details right now. But when I go back to read different chapters, I realize, oh, yeah, I’m so glad that we were able to write it down at the moment. And it was real and we try our best to be honest.

[25:14] And my hope is that someone like you, what you mentioned, right? Or someone like you mentioned those, my students like that, many children of immigrants, knowing that there is a case, right? And also maybe feeling a little more empowered or knowing that it is, it is maybe there’s a hope. There’s hope. That’s how I see it. Yeah.

[25:46] So in the book you talk, you reference these ideas of spirituality, right? I think in the very beginning you use that term spiritual. And then throughout the book, in these little nuggets, you talk about faith, right? Because, and you know, this to me as an Asian American studies scholar, this makes sense that, you know, Koreans are very, there’s a lot of Koreans who are Christian. And I’m curious to know, or can you talk a little bit about your relationship with faith and how that helped to guide your healing journey or this journey to be able to communicate with your mom? Yes.

[26:28] As a child, as I mentioned, I didn’t know how to access and connect with love, right? For me, one way was actually through a religion. As a child, I didn’t know how to distinguish between religion and spirituality. So church and what I learned from the Bible was so precious to me back then right so and then you know as you can see in my story I was so drawn to those religious you know gatherings and practices and that gave gave me comfort gave me also a sense of identity.

[27:13] At the same time I experienced real, I don’t know, breakdown, or betrayal or deception. And that was really hard to hold both. One is such a sense of identity and belonging. At the same time, there’s a deception which is not love and disconnection from the truth.

[27:45] So with my mom… In the book, we try to unpack not so much about religion per se, but our connection to someone, something bigger than us. We call God, right?

[28:05] God, what’s God? How we connect with God is through different ways. And we, I think we learn to accept different ideas about God. And also we had process what love is. And also I was able to share some painful stories about this you know the Christian group leader and my own experience with my father who’s also hold this religious position in Christianity.

[28:36] I tried not to be confused with those two terms which is a religion and the other one is spirituality and spirituality is still very powerful important anchor in my life.

[28:52] Yeah because your story so it’s very different from me because like I grew up like a lot of Filipinos Catholic and you know when i was about 19 I decided I you know I sort of made peace with the fact that as a Filipino I will always be a cultural Catholic because Catholicism informs so much of like how we gather as families and things like that.

[29:14] But I made the decision to not go to church anymore because I saw the connection between the Catholic church and, you know, the colonization of the Philippines. And, you know, I felt like I just sort of had to let go of that.

[29:30] And for me, you know, especially like after my mother died, my sister and I , had very different relationships with how we would cope with like our grief, right? So my brother is always at church, you know, he’s very much like a church-goer.

[29:48] My sister returned to Catholicism, because for her, that was her way to revisit our mother, right? Because my mother was very religious, Right. And it was a way for her to reconnect with our mom. Right. And I knew, you know, and like, I respect that decision. And for me, I ended up becoming a Buddhist, right. You know, practicing Nichiren Buddhism, because that was a way for me to reconnect to my mom. You know, and I think that, you know, I think we forget the role of whether it be.

[30:24] Or like, you know, spirituality. And to me, this isn’t about selling some type, you know, a particular type of, you know, faith. But I do think that in these mental health spaces, right, we forget the role of faith in, you know, our healing journeys or how we manage trauma.

[30:47] Because it could be through formalized religion, but it could also be through how we understand and how we, you know, define what spirituality is.

[31:00] Because, yeah, I know, especially because you and I are faculty people and in our spaces, it’s hard to talk about religion. You know, sometimes it can actually actually be looked down upon. But what I appreciated was that you offered this space of exploration without sort of like selling any type of religion. You know, but offering that space of, you know, faith, whatever your faith is, can be this anchor for that healing journey.

[31:33] And my story actually describes. My struggles with the religious group or and also my desire to go back to practice certain religious practices yet one place I I’m having really hard to go back to is Korean church yeah not only because my trauma or my understanding of God and love but also my relationship loving relationship is often many places rejected right so one thing I want to remember is healing journey, experiencing God is way bigger than what I can understand, right?

[32:28] And my mom, this is so powerful. My mom said, I see you and your wife, Crystal, in love. There’s so much love between you. If God doesn’t allow and accept your love, that’s not my God.

[32:47] And when she said that, who actually rejected our invitation to our wedding and denied our relationship after meeting us, seeing us and traveling with us and process her trauma and our trauma together. Now she sees love and that’s her definition of God and that God is bigger than Korean churches and what religion preaches. So that was beautiful. And that gave me such a, I don’t know, the ocean of love I’m swimming in. That’s how I feel.

[33:23] Thank you for sharing that. Because the thing that, you know, I think the book sort of starts and ends with is your relationship with your wife. Because I do know in a lot of AANHPI communities. you know, because of various things, whether it be history, certain cultural norms and standards, or even different religions or faith, you know, the LGBTQ plus community is not often welcome.

[33:52] Right. And you talk about that, especially with your mom, right? You know, she did not come to the wedding, and that breaks my heart because when my husband and I got married t he thing that I remember about our wedding celebration was I think I was just so overwhelmed by the amount of love that was in the room because everyone that loves you is there. And they’re there for the sole purpose of celebrating your love. And that’s when you feel like how powerful love could be.

[34:24] And so and I remember my mom you know um when we got married uh you know my mom was alive and and um you know his his father was alive so you know like we each of us had one parent and I was just so happy to you know like for our parents to witness that.

[34:44] In Filipino weddings we have this tradition of you know you have the the you know like the dance with the parents, and you know so we had to sort of crisscross like he danced with my mother, and I danced with his father.

[35:00] And um you know like his father you know I remember him crying and he said you know when um because like when I met his mother uh she had cancer and like she died a couple years later and um you know his father said you know when um Jose’s mother met me you know he said, you know when she met you she knew you were the one, because she had never seen Jose so happy. And so it was just that amplification of love.

[35:29] And so yeah when I read your story and I see that your mom didn’t, wasn’t present for that right like I’m like oh god like I would imagine like the heartbreak and especially for you to to feel that right.

[35:43] I’m never one to ask for advice but I’m curious to know um I guess what words, do you have for people who are struggling with parents who can’t you know who can’t accept their relationship and also like what words do you have for like the parents to you know how can both parents and and children sort of like open that have that invitation in.

[36:07] That’s a I don’t know I don’t know how to answer there’s no one way to say and my way is not universal to other people. But one thing my my wife Crystal said that they need to see me. They needed to meet me in person then they can humanize me and our relationship. It’s not labeled as same-sex marriage or being lesbian it’s it’s more than that it’s love.

[36:41] They have to see us being in this loving relationship how we interact how we you know cultivate our love in this in this house and this family, it is family right they need to experience in that. And that was true actually my mom met Crystal instantly she was hugging her, you know she was open to get to know her, and Crystal did the same thing. They were just like already they looked like they have known each other for for a long time, right?

[37:21] So one thing is, one thing I don’t recommend is try to, deny or avoid even having that, you know, the contact, right? The encounter to see each other, see each other’s eyes and have a conversation about love and relationship. Without that, do not judge. You don’t know what they are having together, right?

[37:48] Many times it was my mom who loves searching everything online. And then she learned all the information from the websites and talking about Dutch culture, talking about LGBTQ, and she had no idea that that those information, that information doesn’t really capture what we have in spirit or emotionally. And our space, she walked in our house, she felt love in this place, that place.

[38:20] So one thing is I know it’s painful maybe it’s against your cultural norms your beliefs I think it’s important to see person and then have that open vulnerable conversation about who you are, what relationship you have, what dreams you have, without knowing the person the judgment never works.

[38:47] So and the other thing is those children of immigrants and their parents are not accepting them that’s really hard. One of the reasons I left South Korea my job my friends and my family was actually coming out and desire to explore myself.

[39:07] And explore love right, socame to the United States was um actually it’s a decision intentional decision and coming out was in um very mindful decision for me and it was a journey to fully accept myself and also fully accept and being proud of myself. It took long time at the At the same time, on that journey, I met many beautiful people, supported me, loved me, and provided resources.

[39:46] I want those people who are listening to this episode or watching our conversation, I want you to know that there are people out there willing to support you, listen to your stories. Maybe your parents are not ready, but there are people who are willing to be there for you.

[40:03] Yeah, I think the last point I wanted to make about your book is that you’re very clear about how the, you know, even though the book has ended, the journey hasn’t ended. Right you’re still getting to you know you and your mom are still getting to know each other. A nd I think that oftentimes when we think about um you know how we interact with our parents or you know how we interact with our loved ones it’s almost like there’s this end game but the thing is there never is an end game.

[40:33] Like for me both my parents have have passed on but like I feel like I’m always trying to get to know them. The mode is a little bit different because they’re gone but you know um you know like just because they’re gone doesn’t mean that I don’t get to engage in like a healing journey myself.

[40:54] And you know the the other takeaway from your book is really the centrality of the storytelling right like we forget how brave it is to share ourselves. We forget how brave it is to share like to be in courageous conversations, in honest conversations.

[41:14] So one thing when people reach out to me and and shared I read your book my reaction is like oh my god no it’s not like that okay. What would you like? Do you like to share? Or what was your reaction? I still have that I don’t know sensation of I don’t know what to expect what other people I know experience my book and my journey.

[41:43] Part of me, also, I feel very vulnerable, right? It’s a very personal story. And not only mine, but my mother, my grandmother, parents. And so part of me, I want to talk about it, but I don’t want to talk about it.

[42:04] But one thing I realized that at the end of my book, And this journey was way bigger than my own even intentionality, my own knowledge, my skills. So I had to walk with, you know, the faith and spirituality and bigger love. And when I was writing and I was going through this process, I didn’t know when to end, honestly. I didn’t know when to end.

[42:35] But I realized that maybe there’s no clear end, as you mentioned. It’s an ongoing process. I’m going to learn something about myself. I’m going to learn something about my grandma, my parents, my mom especially. And she’s still sharing more stories, right, on other layers.

[42:52] One thing I’m so grateful is that I see those children behind the bushes. Like metaphorically, right? They are everywhere. They are in my classroom. They are at my school.

[43:10] They are, especially now, this book is translated in Vietnamese. I was in Vietnam meeting these young people who are affected by the Vietnam War and directly from their, or indirectly from their parents, right? And what I see is, I see my mom’s stories. I hear my mom’s stories again and again, and they’re still living in the condition, right, in silence, and not receiving proper support.

[43:42] So my heart goes to those people, and at least what I can do is I can share my book, my story. You are not alone, right? And I’m here. My story is here to maybe invite you to come out. You don’t need to be behind the bushes and feeling lonely.

[44:00] I felt so lonely for a long, long time, and I didn’t know I was lonely. I felt so restless. I felt so rootlessness, and I didn’t know where that sensation and feeling came from, right? And then I realized that it’s my story, my family.

[44:20] The stories actually anchor me. That’s my roots, right? After receiving a gift of stories I realized that I felt grounded. I exist. There was new concept, new sensation, I exist because of the story telling me, where I came from.

[44:43] Well it’s not just that you exist it’s that you exist and that you matter and there’s something so powerful yeah to come to that. And I’m sure your mother went through the same thing. Yes, that’s all I have. Thank you.

[44:57] Thank you so much. Thank you. That’s it.

[45:06] Roots Reclaimed is a production of the AANHPI ‘Ohana Center of Excellence, a culturally centered behavioral health resource center aimed to empower Asian American, Native Hawaiian, and Pacific Islander communities. To get access to resources, referrals, trainings, workshops, and so much more, visit us at aanhpi-ohana.org.

[45:30] Mahalo.

Episode 4: Empowered Healing: Reconnecting Through Kānaka-Centered Therapy

Episode 4: Empowered Healing: Reconnecting Through Kānaka-Centered Therapy

In this episode of Roots Reclaimed, project manager Lilinoe Kauahikaua sits down with Native Hawaiian Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist Anuhea St. Laurent, who is also the founder of the company Kanaka to Kanaka. They talk about the importance of reclaiming cultural identity and reconnecting to one’s roots through culturally aligned therapy, which starts by finding a therapist who understands one’s worldview, values, and offers a sense of comfort and familiarity. Lilinoe and Anuhea also discuss the growing need for more Native Hawaiian therapists, challenges around stigma in seeking support, and how cultural reconnection can help empower people in their healing journey. Anuhea reflects on her own experience navigating her identity while learning Western behavioral health practices and how she integrates both worlds in her work today

Learn more about Kanaka to Kanaka on the website.
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[0:00] It is a symptom of this trickle-down effect from colonization, and I can’t wait to share it. I have some upcoming kind of content that I’m hoping to share soon of how colonization and capitalism and supremacy has really, like, trickled down in so many ways into our society, into our lives, and, you know, our mental health and trauma is just like one piece of that, right? It’s one symptom of this bigger systemic, all these systemic problems that we have experienced since.

[0:39] Join us as we explore the hidden histories of Asian American, Native Hawaiian, and Pacific Islander people. Together, we hope to provide healing and strengthen cultural pride. This is Roots Reclaimed.

[0:53] Aloha nui kakou. My name is Lilinoe Kauahikaua and I am the project manager for the ‘Ohana Center of Excellence for Asian American, Native Hawaiian, and Pacific Islander Behavioral Health. And I’m so excited to be bringing you today’s episode of our Roots for Claim podcast entitled Empowered Healing Reconnecting Through Kānaka Centered Therapy. In this episode, I sit down with Native Hawaiian licensed marriage and family therapist Anuhea St. Laurent, who is also the founder of the company Kanaka to Kanaka. We talk about the importance of reclaiming cultural identity and reconnecting to one’s roots through culturally aligned therapy, which starts by finding a therapist who understands one’s worldviews, values, and offers a sense of comfort and familiarity. We also discuss the growing need for more Native Hawaiian therapists, challenges around stigma and seeking support, and how cultural reconnection can help empower people on their healing journey. Anuhea also reflects with us on her own experience navigating her identity while learning Western behavioral health practices and how she integrates both worlds into her work today. Mahalo Nui Anuhea for sitting down with us for this episode of our Roots Reclaimed podcast.

[2:04] Aloha Nui, my name is Lilinoe Kauahikaua, and I’m the project manager for the ‘Ohana Center of Excellence. I’m really excited to be here today talking with Anuhea, who runs the Kanaka to Kanaka Instagram page. And I was wondering, actually, if you could tell us a little bit about yourself and kind of your practice. And I know I’ve been I really wanted you to come on and talk a little bit about the your focus on culturally aligned therapy. So if you wouldn’t mind sharing just a little bit about yourself and kind of how you got into that work. I’ve been in practice for just a few years now, although I’ve worked for a few nonprofit organizations since I graduated from grad school about 12 years ago. And it kind of just evolved naturally into working with Kanaka Maoli.

[2:58] Personally I was always interested in understanding psychology and behavior because of my own ohana and just wanting to understand myself and kind of the things going on in my own family dynamics and so I started kind of learning about psychology in high school and that you know went on and on um into grad school and um it wasn’t until I had my own ohana um right after grad school that I really started to think about the things that I was taught in school formally um with psychology and how like some things aligned with native Hawaiian culture and some things didn’t and so just a lot of questions came up and as I grew into motherhood I started having just this deep i‘ini this deep desire to connect more deeply with culture and going through many challenges too of like that transition into motherhood and I think that’s a big one for a lot of parents in general um the shift in the mindset becomes more focused on future generations, right?

[4:16] I think naturally we become more motivated to be intentional with our lives and the things that we’re teaching. And we start to question, like, oh, where did this tradition or belief or holiday come from? Like, you know, simple things like, why do we even have the tooth fairy? Like, where did that come from? And do I want to teach my kids that you just get free money from, you know, like little things like that to like bigger things like, you know, organized religion and Christianity.

[4:45] And um Christmas right or um so so many things start to started for me at least personally um come to the surface through motherhood that I started to question a lot of the things that you know as you grow up you just kind of accept are the norm as an adult right and especially as a Makul you can start to question like where did this come from what do I really know about this and do a lot of research and exploration and then try to figure out, well, what do I believe now and what do I want to pass on to my keiki? And so that natural progression into motherhood and parenthood, I think really motivated me to connect more deeply to my Native Hawaiian identity.

[5:29] And so that happened in a lot of ways. But the first really foundational shift was having our keiki attend Punalaleo. And really reconnecting with Ola L’Hawai’i, no matter what avenue you’re trying to reconnect to culture, I think there’s this peeling back the layers of, like, shame, right? It’s all related to trauma because if you trace it all back, it all stems from colonization and Western contact and how, you know, pieces of our connections to culture were fragmented, right? When we were displaced from Aina, we were displaced from Kailulu, we were displaced from each other and our spiritual connections to Akua. And for me, that transition into motherhood naturally made me question so many things that made me.

[6:20] Really start to delve deeper into my identity as a Kanaka and that was part of my personal healing.

[6:30] With a lot of things but especially after my third KK I had postpartum depression and anxiety. I come from a family and part of my generational trauma you know since western contact is a lot of anxiety that was passed on to me through my lineages and I was trying to heal that so I don’t pass too much of that on to my keiki because I know inevitably some will pass on right we can’t fix everything in every generation it’s it’s going to be gradual healing happens gradually as like traumas passed on gradually I think too a lot of the times and so after I kind of took pause from working in the mental health fields to raise my keiki I was home for like six years um I gained a lot of just personal life experience that I felt was so valuable to bring to my work as a therapist. I came back and I was looking for somebody to mentor me to finish up my licensure hours so I could be a private practice. And I was having a hard time finding somebody who was Native Hawaiian.

[7:36] And then, you know, I got connected with a couple people. Our Olam had also moved during the COVID pandemic and that was, we had always kind of thought about moving we had always wanted to move from i’m from kane’oe um and we moved here to puna on hawaii island and um it was just like the right time but also you know it was out of necessity too things were so expensive our rent was going to be raised we couldn’t picture ourselves like we’re just in the rat race right and still we’re still trying to make ends meet, You don’t make a whole ton of money being a therapist. Nobody goes into this work to get rich. I was having a hard time finding somebody who was working as a therapist.

[8:33] Who I thought could help me in the way that I wanted to and needed to be helped. And there’s a lot of, you know, nonprofit organizations doing great work that are sharing culturally-based values and practices. But I didn’t see it a lot in the therapy space. And I was like, oh, how come? Well, because in school, we’re taught in the Western way, right?

[8:56] But when I was doing so much thought and research, is like so much of western psychology is extracted from indigenous practices right you can like trace it back to um well this actually comes from like eastern asian philosophies and this comes from you know these indigenous peoples and i just kept feeling this call to be that person i don’t know there’s this shift that happens i feel like as you’re getting older that’s like oh somebody should do this somebody should do that right and then you’re like oh man like we are that somebody now we’re like that generation and it’s like oh but I don’t want to be that somebody like my nature is not to be forward-facing and to put myself out there like it’s been really difficult I’ve been working through a lot of personal insecurities and anxiety putting myself out And as we know, there’s a whole spectrum of opinion from our la hui on all these really significant issues that people are so passionate about, right? So to be out there presenting any kind of mana’o on anything is putting yourself out there for potential criticism, right? But I just kept feeling that call, and I talked to a couple of my mentors and peers, and they’re like, if you’re feeling this call.

[10:21] Your kupuna are choosing you for a reason i’ve been experiencing a lot of personal growth as i’ve been stepping into this role and so many life lessons that are just parallel to the lessons that you know a lot of my clients are going through and i don’t know if i answered the question yeah so much yeah i just now i was as you were sharing i was thinking about that that concept like kohoia you know you’re like you’re chosen like your kupuna are telling you this is the way that this is the path this is this is what your your your function um can be within the la hui and i think that’s that’s beautiful and it kind of reminds me like my own healing journey of um you know healing from from you know long-term addiction and mental health issues and justice involvement and all those things and and you know that that return to culture finding someone who you can connect with that understands your culture the importance of your culture to you and your healing like that is such a crucial part of continued healing along the healing journey because you know there’s there’s supports here and there there’s some supports for those the early parts of your healing journey if you’re you know going through treatment or you’re going you know you’re looking at those kinds of services but healing is a lifelong journey and it changes you know it it goes through these like seasons basically you know and it continues to change and evolve as.

[11:51] You continue to change and evolve and it’s so crucial to have a connection to somebody like have a therapist that can support you in that healing journey that understands your cultural worldview and what that what that means to you in your healing journey and so you know i i’ve just i’ve been so drawn to the stuff that you post on on instagram and your whole like all of your manao around you know healing and reconnecting to culture and things like that because there’s not a lot of therapists out there that you know do have this that embrace the a more culturally grounded philosophy and i hear it so often from the people you know around me and people that reach out to the ohana center of excellence as well that they’re looking for people that hold their identities when they’re looking for therapists they want to be able to talk to someone that holds their identity that understands their worldview and you know i think you you embody that so beautifully um in the work that you do and it makes my not all like warm and fuzzy to know that there is such a, you have such a healing space that you’ve created for your clients, for the people that you, that you help to heal. I was wondering if you could kind of, I think you kind of touched on this, but how you navigate that intersection of.

[13:13] Cultural practices and Western mental health frameworks. And I ask this because, you know, we hear that what you shared a lot as people are entering into the behavioral health field and we’re educated through a strictly Western view. And for myself as well, you know, going into school and now trying to work on getting my license as well. It’s such a Western focused education system and the certifications and.

[13:43] The testing it’s all very western focused and we want to increase our kanaka in the field so.

[13:49] How do we support them in embracing.

[13:52] Their cultural identity as they’re navigating through these western.

[13:55] Frameworks and you know i think there’s a lot that we can learn from your own pathway and how you’ve kind of put all of this together well mahalo first of all i there’s so many things that i thought of while you were just kind of sharing all of that like one is i’m sure there are other therapists out there who are also kanaka who are doing this as well they just might not be as visible or marketing themselves in this way and so since i have been like on instagram doing this which has only been for a short time the demand has been huge like i’ve just been overwhelmed and it’s really made me realize that one there are therapists other therapists or people in grad school pre-licensed coming to me saying oh can I work with you you know like um and then there are clients who are like you know my waitlist is so long and I’m like I need to refer out like I can’t I’m not specialized to help every Konaka with every single issue right so I’m like okay I need to create a directory I need to connect with more Konaka therapists so we can expand like the accessibility of care out there and it just it is a bit overwhelming there’s like this sense of urgency like our people need help yesterday like years ago right and that is part of my focus now is like how can I connect with more people who are already doing the work and how can we work alongside each other to help our people.

[15:22] Um which is very non-western right like western way is like you can work for my group practice and when you leave you can’t take any of your clients even though it’s in the best interest of the clients to remain with the person they already have a good relationship right you sign these non-compete agreements that say and it’s all for what for profit for capital gain right that’s why i love the work that um travis is doing over at emu a health group yeah he’s literally helping pre-licensed therapists get in the door like learn about private practice open up a private practice and then take all your clients with you because he realizes Hawaii needs more providers we need more of that you know like that’s part of my vision is um how can maybe I do that in the future when I have the capacity but make it you know very focused on kanaka therapists and kanaka clients yeah although my heart you know like us as kanaka we’re all mixed right there’s many like very few of us who are what full kanaka i mean i know we’re not supposed to like fragment ourselves in that way but the demand is there the urgency is there to try and fill these gaps between western and indigenous and in this modern world that we live in right because we’re also navigating health care systems western health care systems.

[16:44] Because people can’t afford to pay out of pocket. And we would love to give these services for free. But, you know, we got to pay our bills too. Because I’m not living 100% sustainably yet. You know, I’m not sure if I ever will in my lifetime.

[16:59] So navigating the healthcare system, it’s like, okay, I’m realizing I try to be that person who can understand generally the background of the Kanaka who are coming to me in therapy. I’m still not gonna know all the things for every single client but I do think that being trauma informed helps so that you know if Kanaka do come to me and they’re talking about this aspect of their cultural identity that I don’t have experience with I’m not gonna pretend like I do I’m gonna ask them right but like there’s a general sense of shared understanding about the culture right that they don’t have to explain themselves or they don’t feel like you know they have to hide that part of themselves or be ashamed of that part of themselves you know how do i connect to the western framework within like cultural how do you just how do you navigate it i guess like how you know um with within your work or as you were in school or as you continue even um in your in your therapeutic practice is yeah do you still encounter it you still encounter the need to navigate between those spaces or now that you’re in private practice is is it solely you know can you focus primarily on indigenous frameworks yeah i think in private practice you do have a lot more flexibility i myself allow clients to utilize insurance so there is.

[18:26] Um, you know, I do have to submit notes. Insurance companies still get the final say on whether they pay for clients to have those services. So, you know, different insurance companies still do require you to like do.

[18:39] Certain, you know, certain Western therapy approaches are more acceptable or understood by them. So in a way you know you kind of.

[18:49] Have to explain the cultural practices that you know you might be using with a client in a way that they’ll understand through a western lens so a lot of the work i do with folks is like let’s talk story and you tell me about like what are your mo’olagos like what are your beliefs systems and your attitudes around i don’t know your self-worth where does that come from tell me stories about when you were insecure you didn’t feel like you were enough or where does that come from let’s trace it back right yeah you know how can we draw on the strengths of your kupuna like what are the strengths within your lineage you know what do you know about your makua and your kupuna and the places that you come from um how can we kind of connect the dots there culturally and how do i justify that with insurance oh narrative therapy right you kind of like you kind of it’s kind of like you’re playing the game of how do we navigate this Western world that we’re living in using Western insurance and still provide people the cultural alignment and therapy that they’re asking for or needing or wanting you know and it’s hard because.

[20:14] So we’re all in different places on a spectrum of cultural identity and like what we know and what we’re craving and what we’re yearning for. And so like some clients want that a lot. Some clients are just kind of dipping their toes into it. And so I kind of take the lead of the client if they’re coming to me talking about these different things or wanting it. And more and more as I’m, you know, marketing myself this way, I’m getting the clients who are very involved and connected to their cultural identities and wanting this, you know, to be a big part of their healing practice. I guess one of the other things I also want to ask you, have you ever thought about building a group of Kanaka therapists to kind of support one another and serve the greater need that is kind of coming right now? I have so many ideas of the things I want to do. I have a long list of things that I feel like could fill the gaps of the needs that are out there. Part of my work, too, is balancing it with how do I also do this work and keep myself healthy.

[21:26] In the first year of like transitioning into private practice I like physically got sick, when I was in grad school and even afterwards it’s kind of like the norm for therapists to see like 30 or 40 clients a week and for myself like no matter what kind of boundaries you try to set with your clients and like all the self-care stuff you try to do for me I was like, oh how do people do this is like too much for me i’m navigating the current climate in the world and all the things going on it’s just like how do you balance caring for yourself keeping yourself well so you can sustain this work right i mean i’m sure you know you wear so many hats you’re engaging so much important good work but it does take a toll on us right so i do tend to also attract like a lot of my clients are like uh ceos or um like not they run non-profit organizations are very engaged in the Hawaiian communities like very focused on this work and they too are also trying to figure out how do I balance that right caring for self while caring for others and um.

[22:37] I would love to eventually open up a group practice that really mentors and nurtures other Kanaka clinicians and focuses on Kanaka clients. I would love to also, like, usher in therapists that speak a lot of Hawaii. You know, my kids go to Kaiapuni, and we’re looking at the future of, like, what other jobs can they have to perpetuate our culture and our language that are not just, like, becoming kumu at Kaiapuni. And we’re seeing that now, right, that those keiki are taking those skills and they’re integrating it into this Western, you know, post-contact colonized Hawaii that we live in. And we are re-indigenizing Hawaii, right?

[23:22] And how can we do that in the mental health space and the health care space in general here? My PCP speaks a Hawaiian with our keiki, and it’s like, it was amazing that we found her, you know? And so we’re seeing it more and more that as more generations go through Kaya Pune or whatever.

[23:44] Hula halau right like generations of hula halau or um whatever the practice is the cultural practices like we will take those skills and we integrate it into every aspect of our life because that ike that we learn it does overlap into like the lessons that we learn they overlap into everything right lessons we learned from ʻāina from. That’s on the list also i think i’m moving um i’m moving more towards like facilitating more groups because they’re just recognizing people need and are creating pilina with other kanaka and i’m just one person i’m also limited you know if i’m just working one-on-one with folks i can only see so many people but if we do group facilitation i can help more people and it’s i’m not the only one helping people like they’re gaining perspective of everybody in the group that that brings so much wisdom and knowledge and experience that can facilitate in the healing yeah of everyone right so i think i’m moving more towards that right now.

[24:48] As you were talking to i was thinking about um when you’re sharing a little bit about like how many clients are are seen on average and that like what it is that we do to kind of because it’s a lot of it’s a lot of mana right that we’re that we’re we’re engaging in a lot of energy is being shared in a space and it’s a lot to hold you know with your own especially with the trauma that we carry within our bodies of our own past and and all and you know intergenerational cultural and historical traumas and what i realized also in school as you were mentioning i wasn’t really taught about how to cleanse myself of it like i think we just we spent a like maybe one class on like what trauma stewardship should look like but when i think about it from a cultural perspective and different cleansing and protection rituals and I wish I had more experience around those and how to ready myself for some of the work that we engage in. I was kind of just wondering do you have you have are there you know rituals that you kind of find comforting within within this work to help kind of cleanse yourself and be ready for the next energy you know energy transfer kind of thing.

[26:02] I wasn’t taught that either in grad school or with many of my supervisors afterwards in the non-profits that I was working with it was kind of just assumed and normalized that you would just keep going right and in if we think back to, traditional Hawaiian culture the healers in the community all the kahuna no matter what kind of kahuna it was um it was very intentional that you cannot do any healing if you yourself are not healed if you yourself are not in the right.

[26:39] If you’re not pono right in right relationship whether that’s physically mentally emotionally, spiritually especially. And that one honestly is so tricky for me because it’s like, how many of us are fully healed right now in this world that we live in—yeah—yet yet like the work still needs to go on and so how can we do our best to try to be pono with ourselves, with our relationships and caring for ourselves and still you know care for others. But yeah so some things that I have learned along the way especially in the past few years and some things I’ve learned from my clients who are engaged in really important work like like iwi kupuna and stuff that you have to have pule right so I’ve learned specific pule I pull it for myself and I pull it for clients in between. I have like my little kind of, I call it like a transition meditation where I also create gaps between my clients now, which I never used to do.

[27:43] I also limit my how many clients I can take now. So really learning to set boundaries, right? Which before I just was like not doing. And to be realistic. Yeah. realistic is like the wages that i was getting paid pre-licensed and in the beginning it’s like well we’ve got to pay the bills got to just go go go right so there’s very realistic motivations to push yourselves over your limits right and our all of our people know that living trying to live here in Hawaii and afford to live here and stay here and not get pushed out right yeah but yeah I’m still looking for mentorship. There’s one kumu that I really want to work with and I’m trying to wait for his program to open a new cohort soon. And I really hope to be invited to, you know, be a part of that.

[28:44] But yeah, it’s hard when it’s like you want to honor traditional cultural learning, which comes from lineage and kupuna. And also because we’ve been colonized, because things have been fragmented, because therapy is a Western concept, and not necessarily cultural, right? It’s not lomi, it’s not laʻau lapaʻau, it’s not ho’oponopono necessarily, right? It’s like in a way I am trying to create something new, that is as connected to culture as I can possibly connect it, but it’s not traditionally exactly Hawaiian.

[29:33] Yeah, sometimes I get a little anxious about that, right? That people might be like, well, that’s really not Hawaiian what you’re trying to do, but my intentions are pure. I hope people see that, and I try to do it with as much care and reverence as I can, and I don’t know all the things i’m not a cultural practitioner i’m not fluent in ʻōlelo Hawaii yet um and i’m not the expert of other people. I really hope that comes through with my messaging is like i empower each kanaka to be the expert of themselves and to connect with whoever’s around them that gives them strength to connect to their stories their lineages their special lahi their their amakua their kupuna in whatever ways gives them strength to be a better expert of themselves and care for themselves in the ways that they need to be cared for at this time and so i just see myself as a vessel of healing i like i don’t consider myself a healer at all i just kind of facilitate and i don’t think i share any ʻike that’s my own i just think i pass on the things that i learn through like my own perspective you know and i present it to people so that they can consider it for themselves.

[30:42] And I don’t think I pressure people to take on my manaʻo. I think I just present it to them in a way of like, this is what I know. And this is what I’ve learned. And this is kind of where I’ve learned it from. What do you think about that? How does this resonate with you? You can take it or leave it, right? If it feels aligned, great. If it doesn’t, no pressure, right? Like dismiss it. I think that’s a major difference between my approach And maybe some of the approaches I’ve seen of other therapists out there, you know, and certainly things my clients have come to me with and said, like, oh.

[31:17] I didn’t like my therapist because X, Y, and Z. I’m looking for a therapist who instead is like this instead, right? I mean, when I was looking for a therapist.

[31:28] I also wanted to find a Native Hawaiian therapist so that I didn’t have to explain every, you know, every single part of, you know, how I kind of encountered the world. And I think that was really important to me. And I did find one, which I’m still with, you know, because of that. I can say Hawaiian concepts, I can talk about practices, and I don’t have to spend half of the time explaining what they are and why they’re important to me. And, you know, that’s such a valuable part of therapy. You know, I will still say it like a million times because I know how important that is. I hear, you know, in friends of mine that are still looking for someone to connect with in that way. Yeah, I think you do amazing work. So, you know, I love that manaʻo about being a conduit for the ʻike coming from, you know, ancestors and the ʻike that you’ve come into contact with along your own journey. And, you know, and it sounds like, you know, it’s kind of what you’re sharing. Like it helps people to strengthen their identities, you know. Do you see people as they start to strengthen their identities, do you see them looking for more opportunities to kind of learn and continue to strengthen that in different ways?

[32:44] The growth that you see in individuals really gives them this confidence and this empowerment, feeling like they are enough to enter spaces that maybe before they were a little too hilahila to enter. I think most specifically with their own ʻōhana, right? Because a lot of the individuals coming to therapy, I think the most common challenge is like, I’m learning all this stuff. It’s helping me. But then I still struggle with some of my ʻōhana because they’re not learning all this stuff. I wish they could learn all this stuff, but maybe they’re not open to it, right? I think that’s the hard part, is that sometimes

[33:24] All of this inner work that clients are doing on themselves they might not necessarily see the fruits of that labor in their immediate ʻōhana like with their parents or their siblings or whoever they might have a little pilikia with because maybe those people are not open to it yet.

[33:44] Um maybe some of them may not ever be right there’s still that stigma of mental health but like oh we’re gonna talk to somebody tell them all of our stories and but who is it for why do we do it? It’s for generational healing right it’s for everyone who comes after us and it is still bittersweet sometimes you know i don’t think there’s i guess it’s rare for people to to see the healing effects and be like okay everything’s great now right of course there are those moments but the healing is is more like okay well everything’s okay you know everything’s okay i i have a little more joy i have a little more confidence i have more tools to navigate you know this world that is still very challenging um and i have motivation that continues to build to keep doing this work you know and to be consistent with it.

[34:43] There’s one more thing i wanted to touch on to actually a couple more things but one was about stigma to talk a little bit about any challenges you might have faced in addressing like mental health stigma with your clients or communities or maybe ʻōhana you know and has there been able to kind of make folks a little bit more comfortable with seeking kind of support within the therapy world or just talking to someone?

[35:14] There are some clients who start therapy and you can tell like that first session that they’re not totally sure that they’re ready for it. Yeah. And unfortunately, you know, sometimes, you know, after one session, they never come back or they’re just not ready for it yet. So that stigma definitely still exists. Majority of my clients, though, they’re there and they want to be there. Majority of my clients, they’ve already done therapy work before or like they’ve studied psychology or they’ve done the self-help books or they’ve been in other avenues of healing culturally like umi or laʻau lapaʻau or, you know, they’ve learned in Hawaiian studies or they’ve been in Kaiapuni or something like that. And so majority of my clients come to me and they’re already sold on you know i’m committed to my healing whatever it takes and i also want to say like therapy is just one little piece of the puzzle right there’s there’s so many other things that we can do to heal. But yeah the stigma yeah i see that sometimes too with people who they sign up for the waitlist and when they’re called they don’t actually start.

[36:32] Which is why I’ve been motivated to share more mental health education online on Instagram I want to expand the accessibility of mental health education so that people can just look at it see it, think about it you know.

[36:47] It’s normalized a little bit maybe it’s part of a conversation they have with somebody in their life right because i understand that some people will never ever go to a therapist right but how can they just learn about these things and think about it a little bit .And maybe practice some of these things and try it out as an experiment and see if it works for them you know. So i think that’s what I’m trying to do with the online mental health education stuff is try to break that stigma that way because it’s very real it’s still there but I think as things become a lot more challenging in the world I think people are realizing more and more that they’re willing to seek other avenues of help and support that maybe before they weren’t as open to I think there’s a gradual shift of people becoming more and more open to mental health conversations and support than, you know, even 10, 20, 30 years ago.

[37:48] Yeah, that’s so awesome. And I know some of your most recent IG posts have really centered around that, like how colonization has impacted our self identity or self sovereignty and those kind of aspects. And we’ve had a few I feel like that have been um just recent have you had a lot of responses uh from from folks about you know like wanting to that really like that that concept of how colonization has impacted our our mental health and our our well-being um have you had a lot of responses about how that resonates with folks yeah i think i had a couple posts where there’s a lot of engagement and got a lot of followers I think like the ones that have got the most engagement really spoke to.

[38:38] The differences between western psychology and therapy versus more indigenous practices and how, you know my aim is to kind of bridge the gap between those two if I could share with with our lovely one thing is that the challenges the mental health challenges that we all face today are not our fault it is a symptom of this trickle-down effect from colonization and I can’t wait to share it I have some upcoming kind of content that I’m hoping to share soon of how colonization and capitalism and supremacy, has really like trickled down in so many ways into our society, into our lives. And our mental health and trauma is just like one piece of that, right? It’s one symptom of this bigger systemic, all these systemic problems that we have experienced since, And I think Western psychology teaches us it’s our fault, like we should be able to just change our mindset and just work hard and just overcome these things.

[39:55] And I think there is some truth to that. I don’t think we are victims. I don’t think our kupuna would see ourselves as victims. I think our lineages are ones of great resilience and strength of just brilliance, right? Our Kourou are so smart. If you just think about everything that was happening during the overthrow and how they got around certain things and how they still communicated and how they were engaged politically and they were so adaptable. Acceptable and i want to motivate us to remember those parts of our stories because i think it’s easy to just say well we are the way we are because colonization and that can be an excuse or that can be a motivation to do something about it because i do still think it’s our responsibility it’s our kuleana to do the best that we can with our situation for future generations right and so it’s not our fault if we realize and understand more of our story of our people, then we will you know there’s some validation in that i guess it’s it alleviates some of the burden that some people feel like oh my gosh this is so me i’m supposed to fix it all by myself.

[41:13] But like no we’re supposed to fix this in community we’re supposed to fix this in connections connections to each other connections to ʻāina and connections to akua in community Like, we, it’s a kako thing. I wish people understood that more. I hope my clients really understand that you know by the time our our work together is through.

[41:36] Yeah it’s like i’ve seen a whole picture when you were explaining that right now because you know we use the ahupua’a to kind of connect to those that that kind of mana’o and so as you were kind of sharing like i’m seeing all of these impacts within you know our land systems within our ahupua’a how it impacts ourselves our families um our communities our our law as a whole is there anything that you would want to add i guess to kind of what we’ve talked about so far?

[42:07] I think that was a lot i’m getting kind of emotional just because i feel like there’s there’s so much to say and so much work to be done the work will never be over you know yeah.

[42:20] It won’t work is so important i think being able to connect to people that want to do this work together I think that beauty there’s so much beauty and strength in our connections to one another you know so I’m I’m so grateful to be connected with you because you know I just love the work that you do and I want to help support whatever you know the direction that you’re going in I’m I’m down if you want to start like a kanaka cohort kind of therapist group let’s do it let’s do it um yeah this with all of our free time all of the free time yeah so much of it so much of it.

[42:58] Let’s change the world you know what i mean and yeah i think um i’m just excited you know to to hear about the work that you’re doing and to continue to see the the content that you create because i think you’re right like it it is it’s shifting mindsets it’s it’s creating resonance within people that may not have have thought about therapy before and i think you’re even shifting you’re shifting the narrative around therapy and how it’s viewed too because you know people can.

[43:30] Can connect to therapy in a different way and not just in a western way anymore like there there is a more culturally grounded way to do it that can be more encompassing of our our full identities you know and not just native Hawaiian culture like you said our full identities are all you know many of us are mixed I’m you know no exception like I’m very mixed myself you know so being able to embrace fully who we are and realize the strength within our own cultural identities and what connects us to to the world to the ʻāina to one another to all the things being able to fully realize that in a in a different way is i think really valuable and incredibly meaningful so mahalo for the work that you do every day.

[44:20] And you as well you’re engaged in such meaningful more I will say also as kind of a disclaimer I don’t do all of that social media content by myself I have um shout out to Kohina Media those are my social media girls like we collaborate on you know it is kind of the content and the information I want to share much of it is you know the the main ideas and concepts that I want to share but they make it all pretty and put it out there otherwise I would never do it because um I’m a little tech challenged and.

[44:58] But you know I’m learning to collaborate with other people and to connect with other people and that’s part of my journey too is that for so long I’ve thought I just have to do everything myself that’s part of my trauma and I am trying to connect with more people to heal parts of my own drama and so this journey has been healing personally and expansive professionally you know to start to branch out and make more connections.

[45:27] Oh mahalo nui for just sharing your time and space and ʻike and mana and all the things in this space really. I want to mahalo you for all of that and all that you do. Oh, mahalo to you as well.

[45:42] Roots Reclaimed is a production of the AANHPI ʻOhana Center of Excellence, a culturally-centered behavioral health resource center aimed to empower Asian American, Native Hawaiian, and Pacific Islander communities. To get access to resources, referrals, trainings, workshops, and so much more, visit us at aanhpi-ohana.org. Mahalo. Thank you.

Episode 3: Cultural Identity and the Hawaiian Diaspora – We Are All One Lāhui!

Roots Reclaimed Podcast - Cultural Identity and the Hawaiian Diaspora – We are all one Lāhui!

In this podcast episode from the ʻOhana Center of Excellence for AANHPI Behavioral Health, project manager Lilinoe Kauahikaua interviews Ipo, founder and creator of the Hawaiian Diaspora Instagram account. The conversation dives into Ipo’s personal journey of reclaiming her Hawaiian identity and her experiences as a Native Hawaiian raised in the continental US after moving from Oʻahu to San Diego at a young age.

Ipo shares how her mother’s efforts to keep their cultural connection alive helped shape her identity despite the challenges of living away from Hawaiʻi. She discusses the broader struggles faced by the Hawaiian diaspora (Native Hawaiians living away from their birth sands of Hawaiʻi), emphasizing the distinction between “diaspora” and “displaced” individuals. Ipo highlights the importance of creating safe spaces for discussions about identity, cultural connection, and the diverse experiences of Native Hawaiians living away from their homeland.

Throughout this conversation, Lilinoe and Ipo explore the mental health impacts of feeling disconnected from one’s culture and the mixed emotions of pride and isolation experienced by many in the diaspora. They touch on the significance of representation and understanding the unique needs of different generations within the Native Hawaiian community on the continent.

The episode underscores the need for more data and storytelling to capture the varied narratives of diaspora Hawaiians and foster a sense of belonging, togetherness, and cultural pride among those living away from Hawaii. We are all one Lāhui!

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Watch the video version on YouTube

[0:00] We’re all on the same page. We want the same thing. There is no us versus them. And when there is the feeling of that or when you have been feeling like you’re shamed or guilt or, you know, another kind of wahine is making you feel bad, that’s not good, first of all. And nobody should be doing that. That’s not okay. We are all needing to work together against all of the common enemy, right? And, like, the trauma that, like, we inherited. All of this, like, stuff, like, does not belong to us. That that’s something that has happened to us and that we’re still dealing with and unfortunately like has pitted us against each other some sometimes not always but in certain spaces otherwise we wouldn’t we wouldn’t have to have this question and topic of have you ever felt misunderstood.

 

[0:42] Join us as we explore the hidden histories of Asian American, Native Hawaiian and Pacific Islander people. Together, we hope to provide healing and strengthen cultural pride—this is Roots Reclaimed.

 

[0:59] Aloha mai kakou. In this podcast episode of Roots Reclaimed from the ‘Ohana Center of Excellence for Asian American, Native Hawaiian, and Pacific Islander behavioral health, I interview Ipo, the founder and creator of the Hawaiian Diaspora Instagram page. Our conversation delves into Ipo’s personal journey of reclaiming her kānaka maoli, or Native Hawaiian identity, and her experiences as a Native Hawaiian raised in the continental U.S after moving from O‘ahu to San Diego early on in her life. Ipo shares how her mother’s efforts to keep their cultural connection alive helped shape her identity despite the challenges of living away from Hawai‘i. She also discusses the broader struggles faced by the Hawaiian diaspora, our Kānaka Maoli, who are living away from their birth sands of Hawai‘i, and helps us to understand the distinction between diaspora and displaced kānaka.

 

[1:51] Aloha nui kakou. My name is Lilinoe Kauahikaua, and I serve as the project manager for the ‘Ohana Center of Excellence for Asian American, Native Hawaiian, and Pacific Islander behavioral health. And I’m joined this morning by Ipo, founder of Eō and creator of the Hawaiian Diaspora account on Instagram. Aloha nui Ipo.

 

[2:11] Aloha Lilinoe, thank you for having me.

 

[2:14] Yeah, mahalo for joining us today. I was really excited to speak with you. And I just kind of wanted to give you a moment to share a little bit about yourself, a little bit about your Hawaiian Diaspora account, and really what’s called you to this work.

 

[2:29] Yeah, sure. So first, again, thank you for having me on the space. The work that you do is awesome. And so it’s really a privilege to be able to talk to you about all this stuff. Yeah, I’m trying to find a shorter version to explain it. But so my name, my given name is actually Shannon, but I’ve been on a journey of reclaiming my Inoa Hawaii. So I do go by Ipo these days, short for Ku’u Ipo I Ka He’e Pu’e One, one of my favorite Hawaiian songs

 

[2:56] And so just the fact that I’m using my Hawaii Inoa is also part of the larger journey that I’ve been on as Diaspora Kānaka. So I was born on Oʻahu, but moved over to San Diego when I was about six years old. I think on day one that we moved to San Diego, my mom’s mission was to find us community, find us a hālau, and try to raise us as close to culture as we could, because she didn’t particularly want to leave Hawaiʻi. So I was lucky enough and privileged enough to be able to grow up in a community where I had Native Hawaiian access to Native Hawaiian communities and people and to learning some of the culture and traditions. But even still, I dealt with a lot of and continue to deal with a lot of identity struggle.

 

[3:46] And, you know, the whole bag that comes with being mixed and especially in the Hawaiian diaspora and being mixed Native Hawaiian. So years I was struggling with it, couldn’t really find the words to express how I felt or how to address it. So a lot of the time I kind of was reluctant in really digging deeper, but it wasn’t until I started moving around the continent, getting different jobs where either I was in a place that didn’t have access to other Hawaiians or was meeting other kinds of diaspora Hawaiians who had different experiences from me, where I started to realize there were a lot of similarities but differences in the Native Hawaiian diaspora experience that I think are important to address. That led me to have some big ideas about some goals that I really want to pursue that are going to benefit our diaspora kanaka, which led me to creating this account called the Hawaiian Diaspora, where we have these psychologically safe and respectful conversations about anything and everything that has to touch on the Native of Hawaiian diaspora. So that was a little bit of a mouthful, but kind of like the snippet of the work that I’ve been doing. Mahalo nui. I think…

 

[5:00] I was particularly excited to have you on and wanted to have you as a guest on our podcast because so much of your experience really resonates with me, you know, having grown up like half of my life on the continent as well and moving back home to Hawaiʻi after being gone and growing up, you know, for so long on the continent. It was a difficult transition and reclaiming my culture and reconnecting to all of those things. And so I appreciate so much that you’ve really, you know, that a lot of your work really centers around uplifting and giving space for the voices of our kanaka on the continent now that we have so many that find themselves,

 

[5:41] You know, we have more Native Hawaiians living on the continent now than in Hawaiʻi.

 

[5:46] And we want to make sure that, you know, we can create any kind of pathways and uplift their experiences and what they’re feeling. So I really appreciate the work that you do and I think it’s been so interesting to hear all of the responses, to see all the responses reflected and see everyone feeling so safe to be able to share their experiences that, you know, throughout the generations, generations that have moved away, generations that are born on the continent and, you know, what does that look like? How do those experiences differ?

 

[6:15] So I kind of wanted to see if you wouldn’t mind sharing a little bit about how some of those experiences do differ between those generations and the differing needs of these of our kānaka communities in relation to their desire to or their access to be able to connect culturally or connect to ʻāina.

 

[6:38] I know that’s such a good question it’s a loaded question honestly and we wouldn’t ever have enough time to go over it and so you know the first thing I want to say is I don’t consider myself the representation of all diaspora, of course. So although I have this account and I’m trying to do this work to help uplift others, I don’t want to give the impression that I am the example or trying to represent diaspora because there are so many different experiences within that. And to that point, I also find it important the way that I go about this work is to make a distinction between the term diaspora and displaced.

 

[7:19] Diaspora is kind of a buzzword that we have been using a lot lately in the last year or so, I would say has started to pick up traction. And it makes sense because like that the definition can appeal to whether or not your experience was diaspora, or if you were displaced. So really, it’s anybody who lives away from their homeland. But I think particularly when we talk about Native Hawaiians, the continent moving away from Hawaiʻi, we should make that distinction between diaspora and displaced generally I chalk that up to.

 

[7:50] I think of diaspora as those who were exclusively raised away from Hawaiʻi, which most likely is on the continent. And then I think of displaced as anybody, any Native Hawaiians who had to make the action of moving away from Hawaiʻi. And of course, there is a whole range of complexity in between that. But that in and of itself is such an interesting term and a word, a label that we have been using to define or, you know, for kānaka to identify with.

 

[8:20] It was actually the first thing that I started to come across when I started talking about diaspora and using that term, because in my mind, I was trying to find our diaspora-raised kānaka, but I also was starting to gain traction and a following from who I would consider more displaced. So that can be an example of moving away, because obviously, the housing crisis in Hawaiʻi, cost of living, those are kind of the obvious examples. But there are other experiences too. There are those who went to the continent for school and ended up staying there. There are those who married non-Hawaiians whose families were on the continent, and it was an opportunity for them to live their life there. There are other examples too of those that I would consider displaced.

 

[9:09] But particularly when I talk about diaspora, I’m thinking of those like maybe in my situation, who moved who were born in Hawaiʻi and then as children moved over to the diaspora and exclusively raised there there are those who were born on the continent um and raised exclusively on the continent and between those two backgrounds uh there’s a variation in those who have traveled back to Hawaiʻi on the summers to see their family um or for whatever reason but then there are those who were born and raised on the diaspora who have never stepped foot on the ʻāina and even even there there is a whole range of those who had access to culture and who didn’t have access to culture there are Hawaiian diaspora uh folks who don’t even like know a Hawaiian person or have barely met any so within that whole plethora of examples there’s just so so many lived experiences that are important to address. And honestly, I don’t think we’ve talked a whole lot about it before as a community.

 

[10:15] Part of the work that I have been hoping to do is to actually capture all of these narratives, all the different kind of experiences and backgrounds of those who identify under the umbrella of diaspora. Because we don’t have any, at least I haven’t seen, any hard data, any narrative storytelling information around where these people are, what their experiences are, why their experiences came to be, and then just like everything around that as it pertains to their connection to the culture. So it’s a loaded question. There’s so much we don’t know about it, but that means that there’s a lot of opportunity to learn.

 

[10:59] You’re right. I don’t think I’ve seen much data on those unique experiences at all. And I think a lot of the Native Hawaiians being a large population that our center focuses on, particularly in behavioral health, how do you see some of these experiences and impacting folks’ overall mental health and overall wellness? You see that a lot in what folks are sharing with you?

 

[11:24] Oh yeah, for sure. I mean, when we talk about things like cultural connection, it’s a part of who we are, right? And how we’re made up. And the folks that I have talked to, I can relate deeply on an emotional level of how this impacted my mental health. For example, I was always proud of being Hawaiian, right? Because I think all of us are proud or want to be proud of being Hawaiian. It was instilled in me when I was really little. But you know, my interaction with the rest of the world was not always that way. I mean, the way I look, the way I speak, my experiences, the things I know or I don’t know. The way that the world was interacting with me made me feel like I’m not Hawaiian enough. We hear that a lot.

 

[12:09] And I’ve heard that a lot from other folks. Or you’re not really allowed to claim yourself as Hawaiian in whatever way that might be. So at least for me I found that to be confusing first of all because I have such a love and a pride in being Hawaiian and I want to share that with others I want to live my life that way but I’m being told through Hawaiians non-Hawaiians um that there’s not a space for me and when you feel like you’re not enough and you’re lacking you know this this feeling of being totally and wholly embraced by your community, that’s going to have an effect on your mental health. I mean, of course, because it’s the identity that you relate to, or you want to relate to, and it’s a sense of belonging, and everything that that falls under that, which is so good for your mental health to feel like you belong to your community, that they accept you that you are giving back to your community and helping to be a part of contributing to it. So although that’s an example of mine, I have met plenty of folks who can totally, totally relate to that. Yeah, that makes sense. And it makes sense. Just hearing a little bit about your story, being raised in an area that you were able to connect to other Hawaiian folks and be able to connect culturally, even in the community that you’re being raised in, in California.

 

[13:33] Myself being raised in a different part of California, there were no other Hawaiians in that area. It was very isolating. And so I would imagine across the U.S. There’s these differing experiences and being able to connect and learn about, you know, your your own self like where where do i come from where do I fit and I remember uh being teased a lot when i was younger as well and having um different experiences about um you know my what my name about my name and how long it was being called names and different things like that you know i mean it’s always a struggle having to fit your your name into that tiny little box when you’re younger. I’m sorry. Do you know how many letters are in my name? But, it’s so true. Even high school graduation. I mean, for me was actually I had a situation, even having a lot of Islanders in the high school that I went to, and it was common for the announcers to, to, to try everybody’s full name when they were graduating.

 

[14:32] I got a no, they told me no, they weren’t going to try.

 

[14:36] And I was like, even if i spell it out phonetically and they’re like no in the end I like really persisted and they end up trying and they butchered it like I thought they would but the point is that it matters and like representation matters so but exactly that’s I mean it’s a little things like that the little things I had a professor um at one of the colleges that i attended that just used to call me the hawaiian it’s like oh you know and i wanted to have pride in that at the same time not realizing that you know that’s problematic yeah you know but yeah so I just wanted to maybe we could go over a few of the social media posts that you’ve done recently because I know a lot of them have gotten a lot of traction lately could you remind me a little bit about one of the the prompts I know I felt pretty resonated there was one prompt in particular I think it was something about what is a question that makes you feel some type of way Yes. I recently posted a question in my stories that was asking if diaspora-raised Hawaiians have ever felt misunderstood by a Hawai’i-born and raised Hawaiian. And I had my theories about what was going to come up in that conversation.

 

[15:54] But I’ve gotten a lot of response, a lot of strong responses, which is great. And I accept it, I want that, I encourage that. It was a really big topic that I think.

 

[16:06] Takes a lot more than obviously just a question posed on the stories of Instagram to dive into. But I can tell you, some of my assumptions did come up. So I had a theory, I have a theory that a lot of diaspora raised Hawaiians have felt misunderstood by those who are born and raised in Hawaiʻi. There’s a lot of variations about what that looks like, but essentially feeling some sort of shameful, guilty, those who have made to feel like Hawaiians were condescending to them.

 

[16:41] Different variations of that. And I want to make clear, though, that it’s not implied to cause a divisiveness between diaspora-raised and Hawaii-raised. That’s not at all what that’s intended to do.

 

[16:56] It’s to validate the experiences of diaspora-raised Hawaiians who have felt this way because I know I I that’s happened to me plenty of times and I wasn’t sure actually if that was isolated to me or to others until I started asking other diaspora raised Hawaiians and I heard a common theme yes that’s happened to me too so I posed the question to put it out there into the ether into the internet to ask other diaspora Hawaiians is this your experience too and so the majority of them said yes this hat that has happened to me um i got a couple of responses saying no that never happened to me which was actually really refreshing and great to hear and then I got some responses that explains that obviously it’s much more complicated than that right that we that uh Hawaiʻi raised Hawaiians are not targeting continental Hawaiians or diasporas Hawaiians which of course like absolutely and why if and when that does come up there is a greater reason for it so my fingers are kind of cramping by the end of the weekend because I was trying to get to everybody who responded and I’m still trying to go through it but it’s it’s such a loaded conversation.

 

[18:11] Yeah I would imagine so um I think, speaking for myself, that raised a lot for me, too. And the experiences probably that other Native Hawaiians also have, if they do move back to Hawai’i, like myself.

 

[18:26] And trying to explain those experiences to folks that were born and raised here. I was born, I live in Hawai’i now. I was born here, but I lived, you know, on the continent for most of my early youth and growing up. Although I came back and forth to Hawaii in the summers every year, but still that was a very different experience than a lot of other folks that were born and raised here their entire lives. And just explaining, you know, what that looks like for my own experiences has always been interesting. And that a simple question like, where did you go to school? Or like, you know, where are you from? Is not a simple question for many kānaka that are raised on the continent. It’s not that simple. It’s like, I have a whole moʻolelo for you. Do you have some time? I’m going to give you my whole origin story right now.

 

[19:21] So, yeah, like, you know, I can imagine that that probably elicited a lot of really a good amount of responses. And I think one of the coolest things that I saw while looking through different responses on your Instagram page is just the overwhelming voice of folks that are saying, oh, I didn’t realize I wasn’t alone. Like, I thought I was alone, the only one that was experiencing these types of issues. And really like it’s, you know, while all of our, all of folks experiences throughout the continent is different, it’s still, there are a lot of similarities, and it feels not as isolating to know that you’re not alone. And so that’s, I think a really vital aspect of what you bring to the table here. So I’m really glad that you started this page.

 

[20:11] I was gonna say mahalo for that. I really appreciate that. And you know, I struggled myself with whether or not I was going to start that account. You know, am I the right person to do it? I worry about putting myself out there. Because for somebody, I’m a lot stronger in my cultural identity right now, I’m still working through it. But even with the vulnerability that I have, I really asked myself, am I do I really want to put myself out there because I’m exposing myself to all of these things that I have heard in my experiences, like on a larger platform. And you know, and I it’s hard, it’s hard. And so like, Like I’m worried about like people telling me that I don’t have any ground to stand on that, you know, what if they say I’m not Hawaiian, blah, blah, blah. So just that vulnerability is really difficult.

 

[20:56] But, I when I get those responses that say like a sigh of relief, you know, like I’m finding other people who have had similar experiences, like thanks for having these conversations. Like it makes it all worth it because I mean, that’s what we need to do. We haven’t outright talked about this. And this is the biggest reason why I’m really pushing for these conversations is because I hear trending sentiments among other diaspora Hawaiians. That’s like, I didn’t have anybody to talk to about this. I don’t see anybody else talking about this. And even like from my own experiences, I’ve tried asking these questions to, you know, folks in our community outright asking, can I call myself Hawaiian? Of course, like I have koko. And if you have koko, that’s what matters.

 

[21:44] But even on the basic level of can I call myself one? Should I refer to myself as hapa? You know, all kinds of questions in between. And I never got solid replies back. And I get it because there are reasons for why we ask and answer questions the way we do cultural reasons for that. And I do understand that. But for a lot of us who are really seeking this, you know, this deeper connection by our lāhui, we need to have this conversation and actually get some forthright answers. And I was really missing that. And when I talked to others, it sounded like the same was for them. So these are the kinds of topics that we really have been missing and addressing.

 

[22:28] Yeah, no mahalo. And I think your page also helped me kind of to reevaluate the way that I’ve been approaching some of my work as well, because I think some of your posts that talk about. You’re just asking, what does things like Merry Monarch, how does that impact you as a Hawaiian of the diaspora and other cultural practices? And I realized that because I moved home to Hawaii late, I’ve been here 15 years now back home, but I fought so hard to reclaim my cultural identity that I didn’t realize I was maybe potentially making folks on the continent feeling othered or less than. And, you know, that would never be my intention because I felt this that way myself. And then I realized like, OK, well, I have to reevaluate like the way that I’m messaging some of the trainings and the cultural healing avenues that I’m that, you know, we want to make available to kānaka on the continent. But making sure that the messaging doesn’t doesn’t impose any sort of like othering, you know, basically, because that’s never the intention. And, you know, people find themselves on the continent for many different reasons, as you mentioned. And I think the main thing is the togetherness. Like we’re all together. We’re all one lāhui. No matter where you are, we’re all one lāhui. So how do we maintain that connection? How do we keep uplifting each other’s experiences and also work towards meaningful healing together in that same way?

 

[23:58] Exactly. I mean, we’re all on the same page. We want the same thing. There is no us versus them. And when there is the feeling of that, or when you have been feeling like you’re shamed or guilt or, you know, another kind of whine is making you feel bad. That’s not good, first of all, and nobody should be doing that. That’s not okay. At the same time and this is part of the the topic that was addressed on my stories about, being feeling misunderstood by Hawaii raised Hawaiians.

 

[24:25] So we’re we’re all needing to work together against all the common enemy right and like the trauma that like we inherited. All of this like stuff like does not belong to us but that’s something that has happened to us and that we’re still dealing with and unfortunately like has pitted us against each other some sometimes not always but in certain spaces otherwise we wouldn’t we wouldn’t have to have this question and topic of have you ever felt misunderstood.

 

[24:53] Again it’s not a matter of like us versus them we all want the same thing we all love to be Hawaiian we all have ancestors that we want to feel deeper connected to we have this um huge sense of aloha ʻāina like we like we’re all I’m like getting chicken skin as I say this and emotional because like that’s what this is all about and when we let all these other things like get in the way like it’s only driving us apart and now you know like and now as you mentioned at the top of the episode that there is a reporting. The census has reported recently that there are more Hawaiians living on the continent or away from Hawaii than in Hawaiʻi. That’s scary stuff. And this is why we’re finally addressing these topics, which is fine, like better late than never.

 

[25:43] But because like, what does that mean for the future of Hawaiians, but also for Hawaii itself? Because if Hawaiians keep moving away and raising their families on the continent for example this is only going to further more generations. Like we can look at the examples of what’s happening now and what’s been happening for the last three or four generations and then use that as an example of what’s gonna happen moving forward. And if there is already if people are already saying I feel disconnected I grew up from Hawaii and I don’t like feel Hawaiian or you you know, like I want to, but I can’t, then what’s that going to mean if it keeps happening and happening?

 

[26:21] It’s going to be this inherited sense of disconnection. And then who’s going to move back? And like, what is a Hawaiʻi without Hawaiians? And that’s why it’s like super important that we address these for mental health, because all Hawaiians deserve to have a thriving mental health life and feel connection to culture. That’s number one. But number two, because the hope is is that we do have Hawaiians who returned to ʻāina. Whether or not you were born and raised in Hawai’i doesn’t matter. But when we talk about it in the context of diaspora, that’s why we talk about this kind of stuff.

 

[26:54] So when you say that you finally moved back to Hawai’i. Just you I really hope that you feel accomplished and celebrated in doing that because it’s such such such a big deal. And I hope you’re telling your story and sharing that with as many Hawaiians as possible because they need to know it’s possible. And it is what people are doing it. And it’s not easy, I’m sure. And I know I’m sure it is a whole new journey once you actually get to Hawaiʻi. And I’ve heard this from other diaspora who made their way back to Hawaiʻi. But this topic and this conversation about diaspora doesn’t just stop there, right? As we’re starting to touch on, it touches on, am I Hawaiian enough? It touches, can I return to ʻāina? How do I do that? How will I be accepted if I do? And everything that’s in between. So I just get really passionate about that because it’s the conversation that we all deserve so that we can work together to protect and thrive in Hawaii. Because if we don’t, then it’s a Hawaii without Hawaiians, and nobody wants that.

 

[28:00] Are there any other of your posts that you want to kind of talk about a little bit or bring to light, or any of your next steps that you’d like to share a little bit with us?

 

[28:10] Sure. Well, you did mention, you touched on the post about Merry Monarch, and that’s really important because you also touched on the topic of feeling othered, which can apply to both diaspora or Hawaiians within Hawaii too, right? It’s just that in Hawaiʻi, you have more access to Hawaiian traditions. Yeah, so access to traditions is really difficult for people on the continent or culture in general. I actually, so I did recently, I posted a what, where, and why about my account and giving more intentionality to share like where this all came from and what I plan to do with it.

 

[28:49] And in in that post I talk a little bit about how I have this fond memory of going to expirations from the Kamehameha school when I was a kid as a lot of us did and it was such a grounding experience for me loved it obviously and it always stuck around in my naʻau because when I really feel like giving up I just think about back to like how that was such a fulfilling and an enriching time in my life that grounded me in our culture. But so many of us didn’t have access to going to that program. I mean, if you’re in Hawaiʻi, you might have had maybe more access to it. But obviously, if you’re on the diaspora, you have to, who can afford that? So a lot of diaspora-raised.

 

[29:37] Um didn’t have that grounding as a keiki first of all and then depending on where they live didn’t have or don’t have access to other Hawaiians firstly which means like maybe no access to a hālau or you know language class or anything like that that’s a that’s a huge thing that i think we’re just starting to talk a little bit more about now. But, within the last few years we We have social media and we have, you know, the Internet and we have more access to things, which is great. And we should continue doing that. And I obviously encourage all Hawaiians to to take advantage of that. But even still, that’s not so that’s not so simple. Right. I mean, take ʻōlelo as an example. And this is a topic that I want to get to onto the account soon because it’s an important one.

 

[30:27] So we have more access to learning ʻōlelo now online than we ever did before. And that’s huge. And that’s great. Some might make the argument that if you have the ability to access it, that there’s no excuse. And that you can.

 

[30:44] I know, I like your. Makes me laugh because, yes, I’ve heard that. Exactly. And I’ve heard that from other Hawaiians too, particularly those in the diaspora, that there’s a sense of like, you have access, you know, use it. Yes. And there are a lot more reasons as to why that makes that not so easy to do. And I make the argument that the connection to culture and how your identity plays into that is like one big reason why. If I don’t feel Hawaiian enough, you know, or whatever, I may not, you know, fully jump in, into the waters to learn ʻōlelo. Like, firstly, can I afford it? Some of these classes do charge, some of them don’t. But maybe I don’t have the time. Maybe that’s hard to work out.

 

[31:35] So in order for me to put myself out on the line to create the space, time, effort, money, whatever it is, to try to learn something like ʻōlelo, like I, I need to be in a place mental health wise, where I feel confident in doing that I feel empowered in doing that I have a solid reason why. But if I’m struggling with it, it’s going to be so easy to fall apart. Because I might start and then, you know, I’m not consistent or whatever, I’m feeling shamed about the way I’m pronouncing things or mispronouncing things with that that did actually happen to me at explorations. And auntie slapped my hand and told me that, um, I was mispronouncing words and how disrespectful that was.

 

[32:19] And although, although I do understand where she’s coming from, that’s not the right way to go about it, right? Because then I’m feeling shame for so many years and I don’t even want to try. If I’m on a shaky ground about wanting to continue pursuing, it’s not sustainable. It only takes a couple of things and instances for like all of that to come crumbling down. Then I’m going to retreat and kind of feel like that’s when I start saying things. And I use this as an example of what I’ve heard from other people, but that’s when I start saying things like I may not call myself Hawaiian or even kānaka. That’s a whole other thing, right? I may not say Hawaiian. I may say part Hawaiian. I may say of Hawaiian descent.

 

[33:00] I might say my grandma is Hawaiian. So you see this actually like separation psychologically from the culture because you feel so insecure about it. And if you don’t feel like confident or empowered or, you know, have a solid ground to stand on, you’re not going to actually like fully use the privileges and the access to resources if they’re available. So that’s kind of going off on a tangent, but it’s so important for us to talk about how, yes, like there are cultural things that we should, and I encourage everybody to learn if you can, but there’s some other work that we have to do too so that once we do approach these resources it sticks around for a long time.

 

[33:42] And important to note that it doesn’t have to be certain kinds of things right like you’re not only Hawaiian if you dance hula you’re not only Hawaiian if you speak ʻōlelo or if you ʻōlelo.

 

[33:53] There are so many other ways that you can contribute to the to the lāhui and it’s just because of the the things that we see in the media or you know that represent what it is to to be Hawaiian that we think like, that’s what it has to be. But as everything else is such a loaded conversation, but I just wanted to make sure that I address that because that’s something that also I feel really passionate about.

 

[34:16] No, I agree. And I laugh. I laugh because, yeah, I’ve been struggling to learn ‘olelo Hawaiʻi for all the 15 years that I have been back in Hawaiʻi. And very early on, it was so difficult because I didn’t understand what a Hawaiian perspective was. And that’s what I think a lot of my kumu, a lot of my teachers were trying to explain to me that I could try to memorize the words. I could try to memorize sentence patterns but the deeper meanings and the deeper understandings of ʻōlelo Hawaiʻi I couldn’t understand because I didn’t know what a Hawaiian perspective was because I didn’t grow up here and I was always like well where’s that at like where where do I read that at and that’s it’s not something you can read so how do we expect you know a kānaka you know that is not raised here in Hawaiʻi. How do we create spaces that we can all connect in a meaningful way and understand what this perspective is and get back to the root of that really?

 

[35:20] Oh, that’s, you know what, that is such a good point, Lillinoe. Like I’m just like in my seat, just like rocking back and forth, because this is also a sentiment that I was getting in my DMs as a response to the question about feeling misunderstood about Hawaiʻi raised Hawaiians.

 

[35:36] It’s exactly that point. How do you know you don’t know what you don’t know right so like if you are raised in diaspora depending on the community that you had access to you don’t know like you said how to approach things from a Hawaiian perspective. What even is that? How do how do i know that that’s something that i should be doing? That showed up in my DMs because actually all from other kānaka who were raised in diaspora and also moved to Hawaiʻi they were all saying the same thing which is that I didn’t know how to do that. And it took me a while to figure it out. And so like, that’s something that I think we should talk about, obviously, most most likely online for those who don’t know, they probably don’t have access to like, kūpuna or other Hawaiians who can share that with them. So this is something that once you have these lived experiences, you should share that and talk about it with other people because they’re they need to know that because it is important to know.

 

[36:34] Somebody explained this to me in my DMs the way she put it was really eloquent so I may not regurgitate it as nicely but essentially she was saying that. If you are exclusively raised in the diaspora, just naturally, you’re going to approach things from a Western idea, right? And that makes a lot of sense. So it’s going to take a lot to unpack that. And part of some of that means that you might have a little sense of expectation or entitlement. Maybe you don’t, but maybe you do. And unintentionally, right? I’m not saying you’re coming in like guns a blazing saying like, you owe me, like having to teach me about the culture, It shows up in subtle ways.

 

[37:14] So you have to learn how to how to show your intention and your eagerness and wanting to learn respectfully, you know, quietly in ways that, you know, support like more of a Hawaiian perspective and not just ask, like, give, give, give me, give me. But what are you doing to to really um to really try on your own in a respectful in a respectful way that’s grounded in our our values and that obviously that’s so you can’t teach that that’s something that you might learn through you know immersively being in Hawaiʻi or through other Hawaiian people and I don’t there’s not like a solution to that it’s just something that like I really want other diaspora Hawaiians to hear. You might because i felt like this also I have struggled with this feeling like, hoo-hoo about it because my uncle actually is a ʻōlelo professor.

 

[38:07] And I remember like growing up kind of feeling like, like he’s not teaching me, you know? Like he goes out, he teaches other people. Some of them are non-Hawaiians and like, but like we’re his family. Like, why isn’t he teaching me? And it took me years to realize like that’s not how you approach it. Like you want to learn, like try to find resources. Obviously it was hard, especially back then if you can’t you know try to do other things and try to like approach it more mindfully and intentionally and not with the mindset of like I you owe this to me but why do you want to learn in the first place and how is that going to give you a deeper connection to your kūpuna and to um and to Hawaiʻi so that’s a really big one that I want our diaspora to let sink in. Yeah.

 

[38:57] Mahalo. Mahalo. Mahalo Nui for speaking with us today. This is awesome. I could talk to you forever. I just want to be able to take some time to let folks know where they can find more information out about what you’re doing on IG and any future stuff you got planned. Yeah, just where they can find you.

 

[39:19] Awesome. Mahalo, Lilinoe. I have loved our conversation. Like I said, I could talk all day about it. So right now, the only place you can find these conversations through the Hawaiian Diaspora name is on Instagram at @HawaiianDiaspora. I am in the works of launching my website and other forms of social media. But right now, that is the anchor to all of those conversations. Conversations and what people can expect is I have a post on there that’s pinned that explains more about what I’m looking to do in the future but one of the biggest pieces I have on my list next is to start digging into the research behind Hawaiian diaspora like where are we who are we what our experience is so that we can have that data to share with the community so it can help us have these conversations.

 

[40:05] But also because I’m hoping to eventually, big ultimate goal, the dream, is to launch an immersive program in Hawai’i, not unlike Kamehameha Explorations for adults, and particularly those who were raised in the diaspora, at least phase one, so that they can feel more connected to the culture and meet other Hawaiians if they don’t, or feel more connected did um and really ground themselves deeper into the lāhui um with the hopes that they take that back to them on the continent and and lead with aloha and everything they do um and then ultimately return to ʻāina that’s the biggest goal. Uh so those are kind of the biggest things that I have and then there’s some uh in between that awesome mahalo nui.

 

[40:51] Yes please go check out the page and follow her, and awesome. Mahalo nui for sharing all of your ʻike and your experiences, and mahalo for the work that you do for our lāhui and uplifting collective voices and healing. Mahalo. Mahalo nui.

 

[41:09] Roots Reclaimed is a production of the AANHPI ʻOhana Center of Excellence, a culturally-centered behavioral health resource center aimed to empower Asian American, Native Hawaiian, and Pacific Islander communities. To get access to resources, referrals, trainings, workshops, and so much more, visit us at aanhpi-ohana.org.

 

[41:34] Mahalo.

 

Episode 2: South Pacific to Southern US: Aynsley Broom’s Journey in Reclaiming Her Roots

Roots Reclaimed - Episode 2

In this episode of Roots Reclaimed, Aynsley Broom, of Sāmoan descent, shares her journey of rediscovering her cultural roots while living far from her heritage. Growing up in Arkansas and now residing in Nashville, Aynsley reflects on her upbringing and the influence of her diverse background. She discusses the challenges of reconnecting with her Sāmoan heritage in a predominantly white community and the importance of embracing her cultural identity.

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In this episode of Roots Reclaimed, Aynsley Broom, of Sāmoan descent, shares her journey of rediscovering her cultural roots while living far from her heritage. Growing up in Arkansas and now residing in Nashville, Aynsley reflects on her upbringing and the influence of her diverse background. She discusses the challenges of reconnecting with her Sāmoan heritage in a predominantly white community and the importance of embracing her cultural identity.

Aynsley delves into starting her platform, Sipping KoKo, as a way to connect with her community, learn more about her heritage, and encourage others to reclaim their cultural identities. She highlights the struggles and criticisms she faced, emphasizing the need for grace, self-acceptance, and the support of elders in the community.

The conversation explores the complexities of identity, facing judgment from both within and outside the community, and the process of advocating for one’s right to reclaim heritage. Aynsley encourages individuals to embark on their reclamation journey, emphasizing the importance of giving oneself grace, seeking guidance from elders, and engaging with cultural resources such as books, movies, and music to reconnect with their roots.

The discussion touches on the significance of ancestral pride, the power of storytelling, and the reclaiming of cultural narratives. Aynsley shares personal anecdotes, experiences, and advice for those struggling to embrace their cultural identity. The episode concludes with a message of empowerment, resilience, and the celebration of diverse cultural heritages within the AANHPI community.

[0:00] That her generation grew up with the mindset of do as the Romans do, right? And so it wasn’t that she wasn’t proud to be Sāmoan. It was like a survival, you know? It was just her and my dad, and she didn’t have other islanders around her. So, you know, you just kind of did as the Romans do. But she was, she’s very proud to be Sāmoan.

 

[0:20] Join us as we explore the hidden histories of Asian American, Native Hawaiian, and Pacific Islander people. Together, we hope to provide healing and strengthen cultural pride. This is Roots Reclaimed. Aloha and welcome. My name is Dr. Lester Papa, and I’ll be your host for today’s episode. In today’s episode, we talk with Aynsley Broom, who is of Sāmoan descent, about her experience with rediscovering her cultural roots while living far away from her heritage. All right, aloha and welcome to the Roots Reclaimed podcast, the official podcast of the ‘Ohana Center of Excellence. I have a special guest who is going to be talking a little bit about roots. I’m so pleased to be able to welcome Aynsley Broom to the studio. Hello, thank you. I’m so happy to be here. So glad that you are here. Now, why don’t you tell everyone a little bit about yourself and also about Sip and Coco. I think that’s going to be some really great context. And so, yeah, why don’t we just start there? My name is Aynsley Broom. I grew up in Arkansas. I now live in Nashville, Tennessee.

 

[1:34] My background is my mom is from the island of Samoa. And my dad, who is Balangi or Caucasian, he actually was born in the States, but grew up in New Zealand. So my mom moved from Sāmoa to New Zealand where she met my dad. They got married. And my dad had done university in Texas. So after they got married, they moved to Texas. Even though many Islanders are known to be part of the Catholic Church or the Mormon Church, we actually grew up Church of Christ. So just Christian…

 

[2:12] Basic Christianity, essentially. Yeah. And so my dad went to ACU out in Abilene, and that’s where they were for a few years before moving to Kansas, where he was pursuing a doctorate in library science. And that’s where me and my sister were born. And then we moved from Kansas to Arkansas. So I say we are true Arkansans because of that. I have a dad who loves dad jokes. I lived in Arkansas until I was about 27, I think it was, and then moved to Nashville about five years ago. Like, it’s been literally five years this month. So, yeah, been out here. And then when I moved out here, I was lucky enough to have worked with people who were very diverse in their background at my previous job before moving here. Sorry, before moving to Nashville. And they were the ones. I always credit them as being the ones to encourage me to dive more into my cultural heritage on my Sāmoan side.

 

[3:16] Sort of because I grew up pretty, pretty baloney, pretty white, white dominated town. Yeah. And so they’re the ones that kind of prompted me. And so I started diving more and more into my heritage and learning more about it because my mom, like some of that her generation grew up with the mindset of do as the Romans do. Right. And so it wasn’t that she wasn’t proud to be Sāmoan. It was like a survival. It was just her and my dad. And she didn’t have other islanders around her. So you just kind of did as the Romans do. But she was very proud to be Sāmoan, extremely proud of her culture.

 

[3:53] But I feel like with her generation, it’s very much like our generation helping them feel proud. And so that was part of what I felt the ancestors pulling me to do when I moved to Nashville. I had three weeks while I was waiting to start my new job that I’m at now. And so I was like going back and forth on this idea of starting a blog where like I could connect with others and also learn as myself, like learn. I just needed to figure out because like in Arkansas and Tennessee, you’re not going to have a library of like books or anything to really help you connect to Pacific Islander history. And even online, it was pretty sparse back then. I mean, it’s kind of sparse now, but it’s getting much better. And thanks to social media and in part, I feel like to COVID, we’ve all connected online way better than we have before. By the fall of 2019, I had started Sipping Koko, which was my way to connect with community, to also learn from others, maybe help people who are like me who grew up in a dominant like a pretty dominant white.

 

[5:08] Town yeah to also learn about their culture and like you know I remember going to in 2017 going to Australia and my cousins being like oh you’re plastic samuel and aren’t you and I was like wait what’s that what’s that I don’t know I don’t know what I don’t know what that means and they’re like you know, fake Sāmoan, you can’t speak Sāmoan. And I go, okay, like, let’s like not use that. And so part of my page is pretty much to just be like, we need to stop using that vocabulary.

 

[5:40] Need to stop shaming people in the diaspora who don’t have the opportunity, who didn’t have the opportunity to learn it. Because of systematic racism, because like, that’s the big issue there, you know so I started Sipping Koko and was very anonymous from the very like in the beginning because I was scared I was nervous I was like I don’t want to be judged for having opinions and finally was like oh hey this is me um I’m a I’m a biracial girly out here in the south trying to connect to our islander roots and I hope other people understand and um if you’re the same like me like let’s journey together well and this is why I like right like your story is a a perfect one to be able to capture, for roots for claim because that’s the story is this reclamation of your Islander side and not just the process of reclaiming but then also having to advocate for the right to reclaim that for yourself Oh yeah, the right to exist because now I do a lot of Bridgerton content and people come to my page and they’re going to be like wait, what’s this?

 

[6:45] But I do Bridgerton is where I feel like a lot of us who are biracial and feel very in between, are allowed to exist because I was either too brown for my white friends or too white for my brown family and so with you know the world of Bridgerton where it’s a diverse world where my my literally because I did DNA test I have UK roots so where my Scottish heritage in a way can exist and where my Sāmoan heritage can exist in a world where I don’t have to choose a side I can just be angley oh I love that okay yeah perfect and so you know one of the things that I want to be able to add to the conversation is some of the history and so like I had been doing some very light research but yeah in terms of the research that I um had taken a look and I was like how how is it that we get Pacific Islanders into the Southern United States.

 

[7:46] How do we go from south Pacific to South US, right? Exactly, yeah. And so here’s what I found, was looking in there, you know, the kind of light overview of this is that there are a lot of agreements that are happening in the Pacific in terms of folks from the islands being able to come to the US specifically without a visa and that there’s like a free association then, right?

 

[8:15] Between Pacifica Islands and coming to the U.S., some of the ways of immigration had been labor. So like in Hawaii, for example, a lot of it had been, you know, sugarcane plantation. Another way of immigration for Pacifica folks had then been through school. And so it’s been kind of the precursor for having Polynesian, specifically men to be in football arenas also yeah had been through education and then through um the NFL when uh to go pro and then other uh labor departments that had kind of opened up had been kind of notable by industry specifically meat packing specifically Tyson Farms specifically from the Marshall Island. Yyson’s in Arkansas exactly and so that was one of the things that had come up in the research has been kind of an influence a source for why the Southern U.S. Yeah, yeah. It’s been interesting because I had wondered the same thing and it’s been hard to sometimes find it, but I know especially for the Marshall Islands, the Marshallese, it was in the 80s that a lot of them immigrated to Arkansas because of Sam’s and things like that because of the Walmart. It was interesting to see that and then even now there’s been a huge immigration to Texas. Yes, like because of sports like you mentioned because of football and things like that. I think it’s the Trinity School in in.

 

[9:43] Dallas or Houston I don’t know um but they have a huge like islander community to where like you know normally like growing up or like even as I got older and was in college you would see like the Haka being performed at football games yes for like in California and Utah that side of the states but now it’s happening in Texas of all places and to me I’m just like holy cow like that is incredible. And that’s so cool to see. And so I get really excited about it. Because like, I call them like our tiny islands here, like in the Southern United States in the Midwest. I don’t know if I don’t know if you call it consider Missouri Midwest, but I don’t really know Missouri and Arkansas. I’m always like, are we in the middle? Or are we Southern? I don’t know. You know, Missouri, we always growing up, we went up there for flag days. And when I was 16, that’s when we started to go up there and celebrate like a lot of Sāmoa.

 

[10:39] Heritage days and things like that and so it’s been really cool to um I don’t know see like what I call tiny islands pop up in states where I grew up around states I grew up because I always knew osama but I didn’t know what that meant like I didn’t know what that meant I was like and you know I think i can totally relate to that like you got you don’t know what it means to you unless you’re asked right unless you’re forced to um yeah kind of figure it out you know my parents parents were from the Philippines but I was born and raised in Hawaii right yeah uh and so when I was growing up like even the shirt that i’m wearing right now is like from the islands you know yeah.

 

[11:16] It’s something that I’ve been used to. I have been doing hula as part of the public school system since I was in kindergarten.

 

[11:24] If you are from Hawaii, you know May Day. Shout out to you all if you know what May Day is. Yes, exactly. It’s a big deal. It’s a big deal. And for me growing up then, I knew what being Native Hawaiian, being Kanaka Maoli, there’s this culture that is the Indigenous culture. Then I have my own right like there’s the culture of the land that I live on there’s the culture of where my parents came from yeah yeah no it’s true right and like that was like the way to be able to navigate that and then I didn’t really know though like that I had to justify or explain that until I moved to the continental U.S. And so and also like have you visited the Philippines since yes Yes, I have. Yeah. Okay. So something that I experienced is like, because I went when I was five to like New Zealand Ensemble. And like, when you’re five, it doesn’t really you’re like, Oh, this is so fun. The beach. Right? Yeah. I know the world. I’m on an airplane.

 

[12:25] You know, it’s like, Mom, can I get off this 14 hour flight? And I’m like, go to sleep. Like um right uh it’s like for me when I went back in 2018 and then 2019 because I only went to Australia so I got the feeling of like family and like my soul was like alive but it wasn’t until I put my feet down in New Zealand and Sāmoa that I like I was like oh wow this is this is where I belong. This is where my people are at. And, you know, like New Zealand in 2018, 2018 I went for my cousin’s wedding and I was only there for five days and I like still remember being like I don’t want to go home I don’t want to go home this is home this is where I’m supposed to be right and my mom literally when I landed in San Francisco she goes oh thank god I didn’t know if you were gonna get on the plane I was so glad to hear that you’re like. Like, cause I was like, I was calling her. I was like, no, I don’t want to come home. I want to stay here. And she was like, oh my God, thank God you’re here. Cause he was like, I didn’t, she was like worried for like 14 hours that my, she’s like, my daughter’s going to stay there. I’m going to have to go to New Zealand.

 

[13:46] And, um, I just remember like, it was such an intense like trip that I even went back to my office and my coworkers were like, you got a slight accent and I don’t like, I don’t know how, I don’t know why, but it’s almost as if like our soul just like automatically knows that like you’re on the right journey when you land your feet into like, you know, your ancestors country and like, it’s just like everything about you just like comes to life. Like it’s almost like you didn’t know the person you were supposed to be until you’re there. Yes. Um, and no, totally a hundred percent relatable.

 

[14:22] Yeah, because I just went to the Philippines last summer I guess it’s been it’s almost a year now, but like yeah, feeling exactly and I think the feeling because like you said it becomes something that you appreciate more that you kind of treasure more when you’re older and you can understand what it means that your ancestors right and, Yeah. For a very long time up in these islands, right?

 

[14:51] I’ve been doing the thing. And I don’t know about you, but, like, there’s something that I really admired also. Like, when I went to the Philippines, it’s June, all right? It is capital H hot, capital H humid. Yeah, and not just hot. I was going to say, the humidity. Exactly, exactly. But I was like, listen, like, right, millennia. My ancestors have been able to do this without AC, right? Well, and to be fair, when it’s like capital H hot with humid, capital H humid, I will admit, you get the ocean breeze. Come to the south where there’s no ocean. I remember being in Sāmoa and I’d be like, you know what? I can’t complain. I know it’s hot. I know it’s humid. But I would take this kind of hot and humid over any July in Tennessee. That is true. That is true. I would take that any day. Yeah, well, and that’s the thing. It was right, like, that was what I had realized is then, you know, like, even the thing of how you are, like, not in the house during the day. You are outside, but you have to be out. And that’s what, like, if you’re going to get out of your house, you might as well, you know, say hi to a few friends, go visit the market.

 

[16:04] I love market. Yes, exactly. And so, you know, there’s a whole way of life, too, that kind of supports then being able to, like, make it through the climate, right? And so it’s been, I think, really cool to have that experience that you have had of, like, then being able to, like, go back and reconnect.

 

[16:27] And so, you know, one of the questions that I have for you, then, is growing up, because you’re doing a lot of this, like, you know, right, identity, what it means to you, how… And then being able to kind of like defend your right to claim it. How do you think that has affected how you either think about yourself or how, I guess what I’m trying to get at is in terms of mental health, like impacts, you know, do you feel like that process of finding out like what identity means to you, your process of like holding on and trying to claim to something when people are telling you to your face, you don’t have a right to it, you know? Yeah I wonder if you can share a little bit more of those kinds of impacts.

 

[17:10] Yeah so um it’s wild because like you know i would say like growing up in the town I grew up and they just like accepted it I was actually pretty like lucky in that way to where they’re like oh you’re you’re you’re islander cool whatever like my friends didn’t like care honestly like to be honest they were just like all right whatever right um I think it was really it hit me when I was like actually diving into it or I was going to like weddings and things like that to where I had cousins of cousins kind of being like well you’re not this and you’re not that and then it got even more so when I was making like like Pacific Islander like content essentially I don’t know there would just be like random comments that people would say.

 

[17:53] And it wasn’t necessarily like you don’t have a right to this it was just almost like like, just shut up, you know, like, don’t talk about it. Don’t rock the boat. And there was always topics that would come up, especially from especially it was also around dating, like, there’s always like a whole topic when it comes to like, islanders and like, who we date. And it always come up to that point. And it was not necessarily like you’re were not island enough it was like almost like your efficacy you wouldn’t get it or something I don’t know it was just it was always kind of like just like it was more or less like your efficacy you’re half cast you’re only half so you’re not technically enough and things like that and so yeah i think that always like prompted me and made me be like okay well I’ll show y’all I’ll prove to you how much I am Pacific like how Pacific Islander I am how hard like I will ride or die yeah the eyes and in doing so I created an account that was mainly about.

 

[18:59] Polynesian you know topics and issues and things like that but it would be like you know that a lot of them when they found out I couldn’t speak the language or like I said I was off Akasi there they would I don’t know it was a little bit it was there was judgment there yeah but I was like oh don’t worry I was like I have I was raised by some old mom right so she told me don’t get down get even or get revenge so.

 

[19:28] And so I built a platform. I built it to be like, you don’t either, you don’t want an Islander voice or you think I’m not Islander enough. And I will show you how much Islander voices are needed. And I will show you how much of an Islander I am. And so, um, yeah, I don’t honestly, if you would ask me a few years ago, I probably remember the comments, but because I’ve had to just like work through all of them, I kind of just forgot it. And I’m almost like to the point on my journey where I’m like, I’m Pacific Islander, and this is the way I Pacific Island. Yes.

 

[20:03] I was like, I got two Matai titles from it. My family respects me. My mom told me she was proud of me after taking our simulant group and putting them in the Pred Stadium for API night. I was like, I don’t care what you tell me. I am so proud of my heritage. And if you tell me I’m not good enough, I’m just going to tell you, go talk to the ancestors, and you can just F off. Sorry. So to me it’s just like why do we have to why are we putting these colonizer like blood quantum things around people that we don’t really know right like I get it like if we’re gonna talk like let’s if we’re gonna have a hard conversation like I think a conversation people aren’t ready for is like when it comes to claiming our stories and telling them correctly because I’m into film and all that so it’s like to me it’s like who gets the right to tell our stories the way we need to sell them respectfully yes and who’s like being Elizabeth Warren out here claiming a 16th Native American and telling our stories and really they’re just doing a colonizer’s version of it that’s when i’m like okay maybe we don’t have a cat but other than that I’m like let’s It’s not blood quants on each other. That’s ridiculous.

 

[21:18] And, you know, I think, again, really good message, right, for the community to be able to hear. I’m curious what your message would be for, you know, anybody who is, like, Sāmoan, Pacific Islander, if they’re going through something, right? Yeah. You know, like, it is hard. And you have had a really powerful, strong, successful journey through that reclamation process and doing as the Romans do and having that flexibility. It’s tough. That’s right. And so for people who, right, it is tough. And so for some people who don’t quite get it, who don’t feel like they can or feel like they’re not strong enough or feel like they’re not enough, period, to be able to reclaim their thing, reclaim their identity, to stake claim to it.

 

[22:19] What do you think that needs to be, I don’t know, like heard or encouraged in order to allow people, you know, to just say, hey, actually, let me do it. Like, let me go ahead and see what, like, my islanderness means to me. I say take the journey. Give yourself grace. Oh, my God. Give yourself so much grace. You’re going to make mistakes. Trust me.

 

[22:45] Go into it knowing that people are going to criticize you. People are going to criticize you no matter what, because I can only imagine I’m on this, I’m talking to you about this and I’m like, I’m sure it’s almost a bit, why isn’t she wearing a flower? Why isn’t she wearing an Islander out? You know, like no matter what you’re going to get criticized. Right. And so give yourself some grace. Also understand that we are in the diaspora and the Pacific Islanders. We’re all trying to learn what being Pacific Islander means to us here. Here yes it’s pretty well established in Australia New Zealand which is great because they’re so close to the motherland but for us here we’re still trying to figure it out and we’re trying to figure it out in different parts of the country which is insane right because my way of doing islander stuff is completely different than the way they do it in California and something that a lot of islanders are talking about like this is so like nitpicky but how we talk as well like the accents we use. Oh, cause like, like just being like, because like I’ll say something in my Southern accent and they’ll be like, oh my gosh, like you’re saying it like, and I’m like, I am so sorry, but do you want me to tell you how you say McDonald’s or y’all? Like, do you want me to criticize you on that? Like.

 

[24:02] We’ve got to have a conversation that the way we’re still, like, we all speak, a lot of us speak English, but we’re speaking English differently. And the same will happen when I finally learned how to speak Sāmoan. It is going to be Sāmoan. It will sound probably a little bit different. It’ll have a little twang to it. But it is still our language, you know? I think something that I’ve learned, you know, there’s that saying that I’m my ancestor’s greatest dream. Green yeah i think that’s what the saying like I am I am my ancestor’s greatest dream and I’m like no you are you’re like I’ve been thinking about this a lot I’ve been meaning to post this but you’re your ancestor’s greatest revenge because like the way colonizers people that are criticizing you people that are coming after you they they want you to second guess yourself they want you to like not take the like not reclaim your heritage not be proud of who you are, where you came from.

 

[24:57] They want you to be worried and scared. And I encourage you not to be like you’re your ancestors greatest revenge. You are their mouthpiece. Now you are the person that can speak for them. Do it like I just say, just freaking do it. Mistakes will happen. But surround yourself with elders. That’s probably one of my big find those elders in your community that you can talk to that you can literally literally sit at their feet and listen to their stories.

 

[25:26] And if you have a parent like I did she was like why are you messing around with this culture stuff you know because like when our parents immigrate here it’s like find a good job get a college degree and be successful it’s not fine it might be fine love after you’ve done all that because I have to do that right now I’m dealing with that like I got the degree I got the job, I’m living in the big city and now it’s like where’s your husband and I’m like Like didn’t tell me to do that from ages zero to like 20 something. So I don’t have that skill yet, mom. But you know, that’s what our parents like focus. But now what’s the great thing is that if you have that parent, that’s like, you don’t have to worry about that stuff. You need to focus on job, school, sports, whatever. When you finally get to reclaim it and you, they see how excited you are about the culture. They see how proud you are. are, they see you getting involved or like connecting or doing the damn thing. You then can turn around and those chains of like what I’ve been saying, the chains of assimilation, the chains of whatever they brought with them can be broken. Yes. And then you with them are able to celebrate this rich heritage and culture that you share. And that’s something I’ve been doing with my own mom is like she got so like I’ve been able to see a person who.

 

[26:47] Would have like some one like we would wear the Sāmoan clothing or we would do our hair a certain way or whatever the case may be but she was never able to like fully like break herself free of, that like buying that like assimilation hat on her until I was older and I was able to be like look mom see we can do it like this look mom like let’s do this and like look mom let’s like and like there were times where it’s like Aynsley why aren’t you doing why aren’t you trying to find a boyfriend you’re wasting your time with the culture your culture’s not gonna find you a boyfriend I’m like I’m not you know and so it’s just like there’s so many beautiful things that will happen when you reclaim your culture when you claim your heritage when you reclaim your identity that don’t let fear or whatever is holding you back from discovering the beauty that is part of reclamation yes yes yes and if you are not ready to take the journey yet it’s fine and find ways to get ready like read books like you can you can just read a book like there are so many books out there and that sounds boring but if you’re like me that you know reading books is one thing but watch the movies movies are such a great like I can’t tell you how many times I watched someone wedding or I would then find ways to do like vi or whale riders like there are so So many movies out there, even Lebo and Stitch, for goodness sake.

 

[28:14] You know, like, if you have to dive into Moana, do that. But I’m just saying, like, there are so many ways to, like, start baby steps and, like, feeling like you’re like, okay, this is what makes me feel this way. Because, like, there are days where I’m like, oh, I feel so low. I’m, like, not doing well mentally. I’m not doing well. um just like in my head space the best thing i’ve ever done is I turn on my Polynesian music I watch one of my movies I watch whatever and I’m like oh I needed this I needed to be back around my people like I am so happy to be hit in this space yes yes.

 

[28:48] I mean like you know my I think my version of that is definitely like um since coming back from the Philippines I have like an entire, uh original pinoy music like playlist right and so that that’s exactly right like when i’m feeling low I need like the small hit of like home and community that’s it so I will be jamming that living room like right like karaoke party of one I mean my flip sometimes coming from work like driving home from work I’ll put on and I don’t even have it on like the Spotify DJ and my DJ here with you and like, turns on the island music and I was like, I didn’t know I needed this, but I feel so much happier right now.

 

[29:38] It’s always good. Yeah. Thank you again for taking the time to be able to share with us. For those of you who are listening, thank you for taking time to listen to this podcast. Aynsley, if the people want to find you, where do they go?

 

[29:52] I am on TikTok, Instagram, YouTube. And Twitter. So I’m not really, oh, X, my bad, X. And threads. Those are the main sources of places I’m at. And what is your handle for the people to find you?

 

[30:10] Yeah, you can find me at Aynsley_Broom. Or if you’re looking for the blog, it’s Sipping Koko. Wonderful. All right. Well, then, yeah. Thank you again for being our podcast guest. Thank you for having me. Of course. Hopefully I can have you on the podcast again some other time. There’s some other places that we didn’t quite get to explore yet. Sorry. Sorry, I talk too much. No, no, no. This is the point, right? Is I need you to talk and share because then there’s going to be that much more people than who can relate to all these things. I mean, it happened already here. So I’m hoping the magic will happen with our listeners as well. Absolutely.

 

[30:50] Roots Reclaimed is a production of the AANHPI ‘Ohana Center of Excellence, a culturally centered behavioral health resource center aimed to empower Asian American, Native Hawaiian, Hawaiian and Pacific Islander communities. To get access to resources, referrals, trainings, workshops, and so much more, visit us at aanhpi-ohana.org. Mahalo.

Episode 1: Exploring Hidden Histories of Asian American Farmers in Watsonville, California

Roots Reclaimed - Episode 1

Joanne Rondilla and Kathleen Wong(Lau) lead a discussion uncovering the historical narratives of Asian American, Native Hawaiian, and Pacific Islander communities, focusing on the Watsonville riots and Filipinx farm workers’ contributions. They tackle xenophobia, the model minority myth, and intergenerational trauma, urging individuals to reclaim their heritage for healing and empowerment. The session culminates with a call to access culturally-centered resources for mental health support, emphasizing the importance of acknowledging hidden histories for community resilience and self-discovery.

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In this session, we delve into the hidden histories of Asian American, Native Hawaiian, and Pacific Islander communities, aiming to provide healing and strengthen cultural pride. Joanne Rondilla and Kathleen Wong(Lau) lead a conversation in Watsonville, California, reflecting on the Watsonville riots of the 1930s and the significant contributions of Filipinx farm workers in the region. The conversation highlights the xenophobia and hate faced by these communities, emphasizing the impact of historical trauma and intergenerational experiences.

The discussion expands to explore the complexities of Asian immigration narratives, debunking the model minority myth and shedding light on the hardships and sacrifices made by early immigrants. Joanne Rondilla shares a personal revelation about her father’s immigration story to Guam in the 1950s, showcasing the intricacies and challenges faced by professionals in a post-World War II rebuilding context.

The conversation emphasizes the importance of understanding specific immigration histories and recognizing the systemic tensions, class dynamics, and resilience within these communities. Joanne Rondilla and Kathleen Wong(Lau) advocate for reclaiming these narratives through family photos and documents, urging individuals to explore their roots and connect with their heritage to address mental health issues rooted in historical trauma.

As the dialogue unfolds, the speakers highlight the vital role of recognizing these hidden histories in fostering a sense of belonging, resilience, and empowerment within Asian American, Native Hawaiian, and Pacific Islander communities. The session concludes with a message from Roots Reclaimed, a production of the AANHPI Ohana Center of Excellence, encouraging individuals to access culturally-centered behavioral health resources and support to navigate their unique journeys of healing and self-discovery.

[0:00] It’s always surprising to me that we, especially in a place like California, you know, we still have a K-12 education system that still negates the experiences of Native Hawaiians, Pacific Islanders, Asian Americans. And I feel like that’s by design, right? Because when you have young people who grow up thinking that they don’t belong or that their existence somehow is wrong or you know what I mean like or that you’re forever foreign yeah simply because of you know your appearance right yeah so yeah it is it surrounds you sometimes right yeah I can ambush you in the most unbelievable everyday circumstances.

Join us as we explore the hidden histories of Asian American Native Hawaiian and Pacific Islander people together we hope to provide healing and strengthen cultural pride. This is Roots Reclaimed.

[1:03] Hello, I’m Dr. Joanne Rondilla, and in today’s episode, Dr. Kathleen Wong(Lau) and I engage in a conversation about the importance of sharing and reclaiming the hidden histories of Asian Americans. The discussion took place in Watsonville, California, and here we remember the Watsonville riots and urge people to know and understand the vital connections between knowing one’s history as a way of improving one’s mental health. We hope this episode inspires you to explore and center your own voices and experiences. Enjoy.

[1:45] So here we are in Pajaro Valley. It’s very beautiful. Who knew that this gorgeous

coastline was here in Watsonville? Because for me, when I think of Watsonville, I think of strawberries. We talked about that. But also the Watsonville riots in the 1930s.

[1:58] Do you want to talk more about that? Yeah, I think it’s important to think of our collective histories, right, when we’re somewhere, and that’s the reason why we talked about the land acknowledgment of Native Americans, but also of the history of the Watsonville riots and I think the contributions that Philippinex people, farm workers, made in particular to this region, but also throughout California. And I know that it was a, not just, I think a lot of times history sanitizes it talks about, oh, the farm workers contributed a lot, but they also did it under a real cloud, right, of xenophobia and hate, right? Yeah. Historically. So I know that you know a lot about that because this is what you teach in Asian American Studies. So would you mind talking about sort of the historical backdrop of the Watsonville riot? Something that is important to understand is at this time, Filipinos are classified as nationals. So we’re not considered, the terminology is alien, right? We’re not considered alien, we’re considered national. And what that means is Filipinos have a little bit more mobility in terms of being able to leave the Philippines, come to the United States, and not be subject to certain laws. So something that Filipinos were able to do at the time was actually intermarry because filipinos were classified as melee as opposed to asiatic right.

[3:27] When you have like a brown population of mostly men who are able to you know who date because people will date on their own no matter what you know the legislation says but who can legally marry you know this causes panic especially especially among you know white people at the time right because intermarriage is seen as something that is disruptive to you know the white family white institutions you have that coupled with Filipino seen as being cheap accessible labor right and so there’s this idea that Filipinos are taking up all the jobs and then also you’re having you know it’s against the, backdrop of poor economics, right? So that’s essentially what causes the Watsonville, the Watsonville riots. And I wanna comment about sort of the conditions under which Filipino men were dating and marrying, right? People who were not from their community. Part of it was also the laws that strictly prohibited the immigration of women and children, designed, of course, so that Filipino workers could not settle here, right? So if you can’t bring your family, then the belief was that you would work and then return and go back home and no longer be here. So I think that’s important to also emphasize because I think we have these.

[4:51] Often we have these stereotypes of migrants and brown, black and brown people of being over-sexualized, especially men, right?

[4:59] Even in women, of course, especially Asian American women. but it’s important to understand that history too so it’s really it’s it’s really a systemic sort of conditions right where men were lonely men were here there’s they might be sending money and resources back home and the only way to support their family was to remain here so that was a huge sacrifice yeah and I think too we forget that these men these are men who are in their late teens early 20s they’re young and they’re at this exciting time of their life but they’re also subject to really hard excruciating work right so when there’s leisure time they’re going to you know mix and mingle and you know i yeah yeah just the way that these like filipino men would dress to the nines for as poor as they were right like they would try to pool money and have like these incredible suits and they would you know mix and mingle with people because again like they’re young men right like anybody else at that age they’re looking for love they’re looking for companionship and you can’t you know just because you’re here as a laborer or they’re they’re they’re conceived as a laborer or perceived as laborers it doesn’t mean that they’re not like real people who have like actual aspirations and you know and dreams and so So, you know, when we think about the type of violence that they had to, you know, encounter.

[6:25] Not just the lead up to the Watsonville riots, but just the type of violence that was very.

[6:31] That really defined their experience as like Filipino immigrants. And this is not exclusive just to Filipinos, right? You know, all the other different Asian ethnic groups experienced this, right? Rock Springs, Wyoming. Yeah. Chinese.

[6:49] Yeah, yeah, you know, because and I think these histories are important to reflect one because again, when we are here at a place like this, we’re along the coastline. It’s very beautiful. We forget that places like this.

[7:03] Have history, right? And they also have very unsavory histories, histories of violence. And when we think about anti-Asian violence, you know, especially contemporary anti-Asian violence, I think it’s a mistake to think that, oh, this is just something that happened because of the pandemic, when in fact, this is something, this is part of a much larger historical experience and historical narrative that has come to define what it is to be Asian in the United States, what it is to be, you know, a member of the different ethnic groups, Filipinx, Chinese, Korean, etc. Right. There are all these like hidden histories of violence. And when I think about that in relation to what we do here at the COE, so much of mental health issues, Right. Especially from what we’re seeing, from what we hear from members of our community. So much of that is rooted in not knowing these history of violence. Right. Not knowing how to place historical trauma, intergenerational trauma, because I think that’s such a buzzword now. Right.

[8:12] Intergenerational trauma. But I feel like we don’t know exactly what that means as individuals.

[8:19] If we don’t understand like the historical nature in which that trauma is housed, right? And when you don’t know that history. Right, I often think our families also are ill-equipped to process them, right? So I think that when you think about.

[8:34] Agricultural labor in California, particularly in the West. Much of California’s, I think, its success in terms of being an agricultural region that feeds the United States, I mean, up until the arrival of Asian immigrant farm laborers, including Filipinos and Chinese Americans.

[8:54] Well, they weren’t Chinese Americans then, Chinese immigrants, Japanese, Korean, and other groups, California could barely feed itself, right? And so people may not know that you know Chinese migrant laborers planted about 95% of the vineyards in Napa Valley 3.2 million vines right at a time when Napa Valley was really struggling so many people brought their horticultural experience from Asia throughout Asia from different groups there’s the reclaiming of marshland and you know brackish brackish water land in the Stockton area and parts of the Central Valley that was done by hand by Asian immigrant labor, right? The reclamation land that people didn’t want. And so people weren’t allowed to own land, but they could certainly lease it, right, and improve it. And then what we know is during World War II, that the internment and incarceration of Japanese Americans, many of those irrigated lands were reclaimed by their landlords, or if they had bought the land in the name of their children, because there were alien land laws at that time for Asians, those lands were taken, And so California really benefited in terms of being an agricultural powerhouse from Asian immigrant labor in particular, and labor that’s still unrecognized. And for many of our.

[10:11] Our community that has been here many many generations many people have ties to agricultural history that their families maybe don’t talk about very much because they’re either embarrassed or ashamed or they feel like i wanted better for my children and so now let’s not talk about it so i think that one of the purposes like you said of our of our center of excellence is to really, help providers as well as help individuals from asian american communities recognize a framework to understand some of that invisible to themselves maybe invisible historical trauma that exists like why why doesn’t my family talk about history we know that families don’t talk about their history of internment for Japanese Americans but families also don’t talk about the history of poverty sometimes yeah right to their children or their grandchildren yes they’re concerned and then children don’t recognize some of the dynamics in their family yeah even as adults and so our hope I know for our Center is to be able to provide that framework for people to process and have a sense of belonging and being a part, an integral part of society. Yeah, because I think that that sense of belonging, especially broad belonging, right, because so for me, I’ve been in Asian American studies for over 20 years.

[11:20] And, you know, I’m always surprised at how much students don’t know. I’m always surprised at how we continue to not share the stories of like the places that we come from and things like that. Like, you know, The only way for me, for example, to know anything about my family, it’s because I’m a scholar, right? So I have the, you know, like I have the skill set to do some of the research, to do research on my family, but also to do some of the research in terms of what was happening, you know, in our respective communities, you know. And so it’s always surprising to me that we, especially in a place like California, you know, we still have a K through 12 education system that still negates the experiences of Native Hawaiians, Pacific Islanders, Asian Americans. And I feel like that’s by design, right? Because when you have young people who grow up thinking that they don’t belong or that their existence somehow is wrong or, you know what I mean? Like, or that you’re forever foreign, right? Simply because of you know, your parents, right? Yeah. So yeah, it is.

[12:34] It surrounds you sometimes right yeah it can ambush you in the most unbelievable everyday circumstances yeah and then people don’t know how to process that right except for maybe just pure anger or discomfort and they don’t really have the framework to understand what their basis of strength is from their community in terms of resilience and survival yeah exactly because to me for a lot of asian americans it really comes down to the simple fact of like the reason why California is able to feed the country is because of that legacy of Asian immigrants, right? Like, these are early immigrants who took the most uninhabitable land and, you know, tilled the soil, made it, created these rich farmlands that not only allowed California to finally sustain itself, right?

[13:23] But also to feed the country, right? Something, you know, something as like beautiful and nourishing is that like my wishes for students to to know that right you know like because even though they may not be a direct descendant of these early immigrants right like they’re very much tied to these early immigrants whether it be the food that we eat but also like the legacies that we share right so yeah so I think it’s important that that piece of like seeing yourself in the history, right?

[13:56] Seeing yourself in the place, seeing yourself in the story. I think that when people are able to experience that and understand that, that can help with managing certain mental health and behavioral health issues, right? I think there’s still a lot of research that has been done and continues to be done in terms of like how our histories and and our experiences are like literally embodied, they’re embodied in our bodies and in our minds, right? So, yeah. Yeah, so I think something too that.

[14:29] I think makes it hard for asian americans to to process a lot of this information or to to do it and feel like it’s legitimate i think that’s part of it too is the model minority myth right so so immigration i mean there’s a story of you know the immigrant that comes and works really hard comes with 50 and survives and i think we probably have heard some of those stories in our families and stuff but what we may not think about in detail for example with farm workers immigrating they were immigrating under very specific very restricted circumstances right right, cannot bring women, cannot bring children, you know, could only live in certain areas, right? The reason why there’s a Chinatown in San Francisco is because people, Chinese, were beaten and restricted to the most hilly, unattractive areas of San Francisco, which became Chinatown, right? And then also they weren’t allowed to own land, right? Because they were considered Oriental aliens, right? And so I know that Filipinos were considered Malay, but the rest of Asian groups were considered aliens, right? And so it was something they had to lease. They had to do whatever they could to be able to try to make a stronghold. And they couldn’t go back to visit because they would not be able to reenter.

[15:38] And so the sacrifice that people made to give up their families and those connections, I think it was something that I’m sure caused a lot of anguish and suffering. And I think that it’s important for us to recognize that immigration was not this very homogenous sort of, oh, you came here and you made your way and you have this heroic figure, right, of someone who’s made it, the Horatio Alger

[16:01] story, right? Yeah, yeah. That’s really not the true story of Asian immigration, particularly in the 1800s and 1900s. Yeah, yeah. Immigration stories are just much more complicated than like the model minority.

[16:13] That model minority narrative, right? And, you know, you know if there’s something that I wish like our audiences or even like our students would do is like understand like the specificities in which either themselves or their families were here because so I did not learn until 2008 which I know sounds like a long time ago it’s not that long you know I did not learn my own family’s immigration history until 2008 when I started looking at one I was in the Philippines and two I was looking at my father’s old photo albums and And I assumed that like a lot of Asian-Americans, my parents came here in 1965 because of the Immigration Act, you know, and that’s a history that I teach. And then when I started looking at his photos, because my dad was the original like Facebook tagger, I actually think Mark Zuckerberg owes us some money. Because when you look at his photos, like this is the time of the square format photo with the white border. So there’s names, dates, locations on all these photos. And so I learned that my dad actually immigrated from the Philippines to Guam in 1955, 10 years before I, you know, 10 years before I thought he had immigrated. And he, very similar to early farm laborers, but he came as part of the post-World War II rebuilding of Guam. And so he worked for the U.S. military.

[17:35] The U.S. military, I learned, recruited a lot of engineers to work for the Navy. And so my father was part of that and then 10 years later or like like nine years later came out my mom through letters and then they eventually got married in the philippines and he brought her over so it’s a very different it’s a very different immigration story right and and and for me the reason why something like that is important is because you’re looking at the specificity of a place like guam you’re looking at post-world war ii um the rebuilding of guam uh we forget that, it was Guam’s relationship to the United States that made it so that Japan was going to bomb it. So technically, the United States didn’t save it. You know what I mean? Like, there’s all these complicated histories. And then you have these early immigrants who came as professionals.

[18:25] And so one thing that I learned in my 20s about my dad was he took martial arts classes. And I had no idea. He took martial arts classes. is and my mom explained that he had to because him and the engineers would regularly get jumped by the locals right either Filipino locals or Chamorro locals because there was this class tension right you know and again like people look at this as like oh these are like people fighting against each other and it’s like well actually these are systemic tensions that are are created when you look elsewhere to recruit labor and you don’t look at a local population for that labor first right so yeah so it’s interesting um because i i don’t know of like a lot of this history being told or being shared i know i’m.

[19:18] But, you know, because like the when I look at my dad’s like photo archive alone, you know, it’s it really is a story of like the different landscape of the island of Guam, how it went from, you know, you know, it’s like a territory and like just the different ways that Guam was was referred to. He has photos of like parts of Guam before like the military built it, you know, built it up.

[19:45] So it’s it’s fascinating. Right. And you need to write a book one day. But I my wish for people is like to look at something as like mundane as like your family photos. Right. Because especially older generations. My dad was not the only person that did the name date location on the back of the photo, because that was, you know, this is before the camera phone. Right. You know, when all of that data is sort of embedded, people did that on their own. When when people say I have no history and I’m like you can look at something as simple as a photograph and like go from there right you know oftentimes like our family photos are the places where our family stories and histories you know start right so if you come from a family where the story wasn’t necessarily given to you there are these documents these things that you can actually look to. Yeah, right.

[20:45] Roots Reclaimed is a production of the AANHPI Ohana Center of Excellence, a culturally-centered behavioral health resource center aimed to empower Asian-American, Native Hawaiian, and Pacific Islander communities. To get access to resources, referrals, trainings, workshops, and so much more, visit us at aanhpi-ohana.org. Mahalo.

Introducing Roots Reclaimed Podcast

Introducing Roots Reclaimed

We are happy to announce the launch of Roots Reclaimed Podcast!

Roots Reclaimed is a podcast that explores the hidden or often untold histories of communities that identify as Asian American, Native Hawaiian, or Pacific Islander. Roots Reclaimed is a podcast that aims to reclaim hidden histories and shed light on the contributions and importance of AANHPI populations that are often written out of history. Through reclaiming the roots of these diverse cultures, we hope to provide healing from historical trauma, and strengthen cultural identity and pride.

Join us for explorative conversations with guests and hosts with diverse backgrounds and stories.

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